THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Could Perscio have been dropped by the FBI after the Gallo conflict? I doubt he was informing when he was the boss as that was all Scarpa and Sparaco.

[quote=dack2001 post_id=225026 time=1649246762 user_id=5291]
Agreed, that's what was dumb about the whole thing. The document itself never indicated Persico was a rat. It had to be one last jab at Persico from Little Vic because the information just isn't there. That said, if Sonny Franzese read the newspaper and believed it, that's news. I'm sure he wasn't the only one. It was irresponsible for the DailyNews to publish it without bothering to actually review the document and very irresponsible for Orena's lawyers to file it.
[/quote]

Franzese was dead by the time the "story" broke about Persico being a rat. I tried looking through the book to find the specific passage where Franzese accuses Persico of being a rat but have yet to find it.

Agreed, that's what was dumb about the whole thing. The document itself never indicated Persico was a rat. It had to be one last jab at Persico from Little Vic because the information just isn't there. That said, if Sonny Franzese read the newspaper and believed it, that's news. I'm sure he wasn't the only one. It was irresponsible for the DailyNews to publish it without bothering to actually review the document and very irresponsible for Orena's lawyers to file it.

I just don’t see it. Persico was a smart man. He did far too much time to have been a CI. The most simple explanation is usually true. He got nothing out of being a source of information. It would make an incredible story if true, but at this point it is just conjecture.

[quote=scott22 post_id=224963 time=1649191753 user_id=147]
SonnyB,

Bro, I wrote an article on what Sonny Franzese said in the book & you attack ME? lol. Furthermore, I wrote people are claiming the NYDN is misinterpreting the document (hence, they are saying the document isnt saying he is a rat, to your point). Be better, dude.

People that don't give merit to my work are HATERS and keyboard tough guys like yourself who have not accomplished anything in this field and want to throw shade to people that have.

SMB
[/quote]

[quote=scott22 post_id=224963 time=1649191753 user_id=147]
SonnyB,

Bro, I wrote an article on what Sonny Franzese said in the book & you attack ME? lol.[/quote]

Did you or did you not write:
[quote=furiofromnaples post_id=224920 time=1649159769 user_id=137]
The issue critics are taking with the document filed by Orena’s attorneys is that the source of the information on the document is named as “NY 3461-C-TE,” better known as infamous informant and mob killer, Greg (The Grim Reaper) Scarpa.
[/quote]

If you did, PLEASE address the point. That is to say, our point of contention is not the source of the information, but that the information itself indicates Persico was a rat. It DEMONSTARBLY does not. I would trust you dont need me to explain why.

If you did not write this, I genuinely apologise. I sincerely do not want to 'hate' you, discredit you for no reason or any other vindictive standpoint. I WANT to believe your work. That is, a rare actual researcher, journalist, contributor in the IOC field.

Im calling out bullshit in work, perceived or falsely (and will humbly withdraw opinion and happily apoligise in the latter) thats ALL I care about. Believe me when I say nothing personal.

But if you state the point of contention on this issue, about whether Persico was a rat or not, is about Scarpa being the source, is just so mind bogglingly retarded and so far from the actual point of contention I dont know where to start.

I am happy to be wrong Scott.

yawn. clickbait

SonnyB,

Bro, I wrote an article on what Sonny Franzese said in the book & you attack ME? lol. Furthermore, I wrote people are claiming the NYDN is misinterpreting the document (hence, they are saying the document isnt saying he is a rat, to your point). Be better, dude.

People that don't give merit to my work are HATERS and keyboard tough guys like yourself who have not accomplished anything in this field and want to throw shade to people that have.

SMB

[quote=furiofromnaples post_id=224920 time=1649159769 user_id=137]
The issue critics are taking with the document filed by Orena’s attorneys is that the source of the information on the document is named as “NY 3461-C-TE,” better known as infamous informant and mob killer, Greg (The Grim Reaper) Scarpa.
[/quote]

No Scott, the issue is the document doesnt indicate Persico is a rat at all.

And you wonder why people have little patience for your work.

Its demonstrably obvious that document did nothing of the sort in 'indicating Persico was a rat'.
Its bullshit and there is zero evidence suggesting Persico ratted.

That Sonny may or may not have thought this doesnt mean a thing.

I'm not saying he was or wasn't, but there hasn't been a smoking gun that points to him being one. I'm also skeptical of interviews with a 100+ year-old man by a journalist who may or not be using the old man's death to embellish the contents of his work to sell books. Maybe I'm making assumptions on Mr. Peddie's work before I read it, but I doubt he would do much dispell rumors of Periso being a CI.

I think it would be quite the revelation if it were true Persico was an informant. But I wouldn't be surprised either. These guys play both sides of the fence more than we would think. It seems to be a very successful hand to play.

[quote=furiofromnaples post_id=224920 time=1649159769 user_id=137]
The issue critics are taking with the document filed by Orena’s attorneys is that the source of the information on the document is named as “NY 3461-C-TE,” better known as infamous informant and mob killer, Greg (The Grim Reaper) Scarpa. When the Persico and Orena crews began shooting it out in the second Colombo Mob War, Scarpa served as the imprisoned Persico’s top muscle on the street. Franzese was incarcerated for the most of the war, but upon finally emerging from prison, he helped make the peace between the two opposing factions.
[/quote]

I like Scott, but the issues critics are taking with the document has nothing to do with the source -- only with the contention that it "proves" Persico was an informant, which it does not. Scarpa wasn't a source for Persico's alleged cooperating, he was merely the source for the information recorded on the document, some of which pertains to Persico. Orena's attorneys saw an informant code and Persico's name in proximity to each other on the report and made an assumption that he must have been an informant. It's pretty sad when I have a better grasp of what FBI documents say and mean than an attorney being paid a hundred dollars an hour (or journalists -- not Scott -- that just ran with the "Persico is a rat!" headline), but that appears to be the case here.

https://gangsterreport.com/battle-of-the-dead-dons-colombo-mob-underboss-sonny-franzese-thought-boss-carmine-persico-was-a-snitch-too/

April 4, 2022 – According to the new book, Sonny: The Last of The Old Time Mafia Bosses by S.J. Peddie, the New York Daily News isn’t the only one to think historic New York mob don Carmine (The Snake) Persico was a rat.

Peddie’s much-anticipated book based on the author’s exclusive tell-all interview with the man, John (Sonny) Franzese, himself in the final months of his extraordinarily fascinating life, reveals, among other things, that Franzese believed that Persico, the longtime Colombo crime family leader, was a confidential informant for the FBI. The book was released by the Citadel Press on March 28 and is garnering great reviews. Peddie writes for Newsday.

Franzese died at age 103 a free man in February 2020. He loyally served as a capo and then underboss to Persico during Persico’s epic reign and did a total of almost 50 years in prison in his legendary gangland career. Persico passed of natural causes in 2019 behind bars, having headed the family from his prison cell since the mid 1980s. Franzese told Peddie he thought Persico was giving info to the feds to try and trip him up out of jealousy and insecurity and helped coordinate an alleged conspiracy to frame him for a series of bank robberies that he would get found guilty of in 1967.

The NY Daily News made waves and caught considerable blowback last year for a frontpage story declaring Persico a rat sourced from a 1971 FBI documents lawyers for a former Persico rival put into the court record as part of an appeal for a compassionate release in his racketeering and murder

case.

Some claim reporters and editors at The New York Daily News are misinterpreting the document. Others say even if read correctly, the source for the intelligence included in the document is an unhinged, unreliable and unrepentant mafia enforcer sociopath whose cooperation with the government came under a significant amount of legal and ethical scrutiny.

The NY Daily News obtained the court brief tying Carmine Persico to informant status from attorneys representing Persico’s one-time acting boss turned enemy-combatant Vittorio (Little Vic) Orena. The Persico and Orena factions went to war in the streets of New York in the early 1990s, leaving 12 bodies in its wake and Orena locked up with Persico on a life sentence.

The issue critics are taking with the document filed by Orena’s attorneys is that the source of the information on the document is named as “NY 3461-C-TE,” better known as infamous informant and mob killer, Greg (The Grim Reaper) Scarpa. When the Persico and Orena crews began shooting it out in the second Colombo Mob War, Scarpa served as the imprisoned Persico’s top muscle on the street. Franzese was incarcerated for the most of the war, but upon finally emerging from prison, he helped make the peace between the two opposing factions.

Scarpa died of AIDS in 1994, a victim of a dirty blood transfusion years earlier. Orena, 88, has been locked up since April 1992.