THE BLACK HAND FORUM

felice wrote:JD,

what about Michael Di Benedetto? was he already dead in 2002?

wasn't Montagna inducted in 2004?

Mukremin wrote:Outdated? Oke you have some articles for me to read? I need to catch up a lot it seems lol. But still question remains was he dumped hence the lack of respect at his funeral and no real retaliation.

Mukremin wrote:

Lupara wrote:

Wiseguy wrote:Those figures you posted above have always been hard to believe. Maybe if you counted the 20 or so members in the Montreal Crew but could they really still be included in 2002/2003 after the supposed break following the 1999 murder of Sciascia?

Yes, because these guys were inducted into the Bonanno family. And if there ever was a break it wasn't official. Most of the members of the old crew sided with Montagna against the Rizzutos.

If Vitale estimated 150 members he most likely included Montreal. I think 100 members during Massino's reign is on the low end. Especially because they made up names of dead guys in order to make new members.

Most sided with Montagna? I thought it was the other way around, that Montagna wasn't liked by any of the factions there. That he tried to muscle his way in, and that he was worth shit up there. No retaliation after his killing and the poor show up at his funeral. This is the image i get after reading the latest book about the Rizzutos.

Lupara wrote:

Wiseguy wrote:Those figures you posted above have always been hard to believe. Maybe if you counted the 20 or so members in the Montreal Crew but could they really still be included in 2002/2003 after the supposed break following the 1999 murder of Sciascia?

Yes, because these guys were inducted into the Bonanno family. And if there ever was a break it wasn't official. Most of the members of the old crew sided with Montagna against the Rizzutos.

If Vitale estimated 150 members he most likely included Montreal. I think 100 members during Massino's reign is on the low end. Especially because they made up names of dead guys in order to make new members.

B. wrote:On one hand they honored the 20 member cap that had been in place, but on the other hand it sounds like they weren't notifying NY about new members which would be an issue.

Chris Christie wrote:

JD wrote:

Lupara wrote:

JD wrote:Some not all because of Vitale's trip to Montreal, where he was told they had 19 made guys but had expected the number to be 9 (minus recently murdered Sciascia). So they were inducting guys and apparently not telling the admin. That stil leaves the nine or so confirmed to be formally authorized Bonanno members. Whatever their feelings towards the Bonanno leadership after Sciascia was killed, they were still Bonanno members.

Montreal seems to have been capped at 20. Their numbers were consistent from the 1960s to the 2000s. An FBI report of Montreal in the 1960s states that there are 20 members. Paoli Violi was overheard on a wiretap in the 1970s saying that they had 20 members. Vitale had limited knowledge on Montreal. Perhaps he expected it to be a tradional decina with 10 members.

That sounds about right, I was going off memory on the Montreal side.

Do we have a list or idea of who those members were and their origin (Sic vs Cal)

Great posts all around. I learned alot from this thread.

JD wrote:

Lupara wrote:

JD wrote:Some not all because of Vitale's trip to Montreal, where he was told they had 19 made guys but had expected the number to be 9 (minus recently murdered Sciascia). So they were inducting guys and apparently not telling the admin. That stil leaves the nine or so confirmed to be formally authorized Bonanno members. Whatever their feelings towards the Bonanno leadership after Sciascia was killed, they were still Bonanno members.

Montreal seems to have been capped at 20. Their numbers were consistent from the 1960s to the 2000s. An FBI report of Montreal in the 1960s states that there are 20 members. Paoli Violi was overheard on a wiretap in the 1970s saying that they had 20 members. Vitale had limited knowledge on Montreal. Perhaps he expected it to be a tradional decina with 10 members.

That sounds about right, I was going off memory on the Montreal side.

Lupara wrote:

JD wrote:Some not all because of Vitale's trip to Montreal, where he was told they had 19 made guys but had expected the number to be 9 (minus recently murdered Sciascia). So they were inducting guys and apparently not telling the admin. That stil leaves the nine or so confirmed to be formally authorized Bonanno members. Whatever their feelings towards the Bonanno leadership after Sciascia was killed, they were still Bonanno members.

Montreal seems to have been capped at 20. Their numbers were consistent from the 1960s to the 2000s. An FBI report of Montreal in the 1960s states that there are 20 members. Paoli Violi was overheard on a wiretap in the 1970s saying that they had 20 members. Vitale had limited knowledge on Montreal. Perhaps he expected it to be a tradional decina with 10 members.

JD wrote:Some not all because of Vitale's trip to Montreal, where he was told they had 19 made guys but had expected the number to be 9 (minus recently murdered Sciascia). So they were inducting guys and apparently not telling the admin. That stil leaves the nine or so confirmed to be formally authorized Bonanno members. Whatever their feelings towards the Bonanno leadership after Sciascia was killed, they were still Bonanno members.

Wiseguy wrote:Do you recall where those came from?