Ranks before becoming boss

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Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by chin_gigante » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:31 pm

Jezza9009 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:04 pm I remember reading somewhere that you could never be promoted from soldier > boss directly. Is there any truth to it?

Wasn't Madonna made a captain without a crew before he was made active boss?
Pennisi said guys can be promoted to captain positions without a crew as a jumping off point to going to the administration, but there's no hard rule. Michael DeSantis went from soldier to acting boss.

The only other instance I've found of something similar to this happening is when Thomas DiBella became the boss of the Colombo family:
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Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by Jezza9009 » Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:04 pm

I remember reading somewhere that you could never be promoted from soldier > boss directly. Is there any truth to it?

Wasn't Madonna made a captain without a crew before he was made active boss?

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by johnny_scootch » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:49 pm

I see, so it wasn’t like Masseria/Morello were operating outside the box by inducting main landers but the amount of main landers they brought in is what changed the game. Great info thank you

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by Antiliar » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:34 pm

Carmelo LiConti was definitely made.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by B. » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:23 pm

Think you told me Carmelo LiConti was at Lupo's dinner. His son got made into the Gambinos so maybe the older one was made too.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by Angelo Santino » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:02 am

Wasnt John Giustra a mainland Gambino who attended Lupo's welcome home dinner? I believe hes the first mainland name we have for the Gams.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by B. » Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:39 am

On the DeCarlo tapes Fred "Poagy" Toriello says he was made in the mid-late 1910s and then goes on to say Masseria was his boss later on. He was mainland heritage so that tells us the LoMonte-Loiacano (Genovese/Lucchese before the split) Family was making non-Sicilians that early.

Would mean not just the Masseria but also Reina Family were no strangers to having mainland members in their group at the time they split. Might tell us something about a guy like Dominick Petrilli being one of the minority Reina loyalists' top leaders and two of Reina's daughters marrying non-Sicilian members (though he was already dead for both marriages).

The Lucchese Family seems way more Sicilian than the Genovese in the 1920s/30s but we also see they didn't hold onto their roots for long so maybe that had been "eroding" since the 1910s when they were under Loiacano. Much different from the Bonannos and Profacis who barely made any non-Sicilians until the 1940s/50s.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by Angelo Santino » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:49 am

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:58 pm Is it possible ‘combaneesh’ is just a reference to the renegade group under Masseria & Morello that was making Sicilians and non Sicilians alike unbeknownst to the NY families in an effort to build up their power base so they could eventually challenge D’Aquila?
I suspect it's possible the Gens made people on the sly but by 1920 the floodgates were open to everyone for just about every family. The Gambinos also took in their share of mainlanders and given the Sabella document listing nonSicilian members in 1920 pushes back the timeline for when membership became widely available for mainlanders.

D'Aquila was BOB from 1912 to 1928 and this genetic fusion occured under his watch. Given the amount of mainlanders in the Gambinos he likely signed off and benefitted from it like everyone.

Still though, the amount of mainlanders that the Gen had to absorb to not only rival but surpass the Gams who started this "cold war" as the largest group, would be astonishing.

Just imagine if history went a different way and Morello failed and Masseria was murdered in 1921. That faction would have been disbanded and the remnants crawling to Reina the "legitimate" successor to Loiacano-LoMonte-Morello. Masseria's name would go next to the three captains and Orena and theres have been four families in NYC.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by Angelo Santino » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:22 am

eboli wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:46 am Genovese:

Masseria: captain (de facto) -> boss [ circa 1922 ]

Luciano: captain -> boss [ September 1931 ]

Costello: consigliere (acting boss) -> boss [ circa 1946 ]

Genovese: underboss -> boss [ May 1957 ]

Catena: underboss (acting boss) -> boss [ April 1969 ]

Tieri: captain (acting underboss) -> boss [ October 1972 ]

Salerno: underboss -> boss [ October 1980 ]

Lombardo: captain (panel member) -> boss [ March 1981 ]

Gigante: consigliere (acting boss) -> boss [ November 1981 ]

Bellomo: captain (panel member) -> boss [ circa 2012 ]
For what it's worth, there was an informant in the 1920s who mentioned Masseria several times who was specific in stating that he wasnt a member of the Fratellanza and then making a point to clarify when he was, which was in 1921. "Fratellanza" described the entire thing not one individual family so any potential transfers wouldnt render one a fratello. 1921 was also when Gentile first labels him a boss.

Masseria had previously been arrested with Bonanno linked affiliates in a robbery I think and he had a relative in Cleveland- Charles- who was a member of Joe Lonardo's Family in the 1910s. So he clearly came from a Mafia background. Also by the early 1920s, Masseria was already the equivalent of a millionaire today so if he joined, he entered as a wealthy man.

To make things interesting, another informant claimed Luciano was made in 1917. "Well Joe for starters, I'm number 2. Ahead of even Catania here, I keep the booze and the numbers,..."

Another interesting curveball into things were the Bonanno Goodkillers who, evidently, seemed to have hit a few of Morellos enemies which could point to some alliance. Combining that with Masseria's previous arrest with the Bonanno affiliates has led some to wonder if he was another Boss pumped out under Schiro to represent another group.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by B. » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:30 pm

Yeah and Bonanno makes a distinction between the Castellammarese and non-Castellammarese factions in his book. The Salemi/Santa Ninfa faction is closer to Trapani than the non-Castellammarese faction he talks about (Caruso, Italiano) but still seems to make a clear line between them. Might tell us about the make-up of early crews.

Another thing that might tell us about early Bonanno crews is in Castellammare Bonanno makes it sound like each clan had their own leader. Maybe it was a defacto role but could also mean they had decinas along clan lines and this would have carried to NYC. Vito Bonventre is listed as his second cousin in the index so maybe the clan belonged to his crew for that reason.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by thekiduknow » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:13 pm

B. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:04 pm
thekiduknow wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:06 pm Thanks for the correction, I must have glossed over that part in the book.

Benny Gallo is another who might have been under Bonventre, when he was killed I seem to remember it was mentioned Gallo was the new “King of Williamsburg”, replacing Bonventre. Could be the crew got split up, I remember you saying the Bonannos crew succession can be murky/non linear.

It’s been awhile since I’ve read the book, but Bonanno wasn’t made during that sit down right? That’s why Maranzano represented him?
I suspect Benny Gallo may have been a captain of another crew. Because news reports had no idea what went on inside the organization, they probably just knew Gallo and Bonventre were both important men in Williamsburg when the reality is so much of that Family was in Williamsburg they no doubt had multiple crews there. Most of the guys arrested with Gallo were from Salemi and that area.

I go into him in one of the sections in this long article but Bonanno doesn't mention him so we can only speculate who he was and why he died: https://mafia.substack.com/p/a-different-set-of-gallos

The guys from Salemi, Santa Ninfa, and Partanna go back to the earliest days but they were closely linked for generations (you and I have talked about it) so I wouldn't be surprised if they had their own little group under Gallo. Would be interesting if Gaspare Messina was an earlier leader over them.
That makes more sense, Gallo could have been captain over the non Castellammarese members in Williamsburg, Giuseppe Grimaldi comes to mind.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by B. » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:08 pm

Was Russo a captain in recent decades though? I know he was one before the 1990s but was trying to ID the ranks guys had immediately leading up to becoming boss.

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by johnny_scootch » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:58 pm

Is it possible ‘combaneesh’ is just a reference to the renegade group under Masseria & Morello that was making Sicilians and non Sicilians alike unbeknownst to the NY families in an effort to build up their power base so they could eventually challenge D’Aquila?

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by Browniety86 » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:28 pm

Mush Russo was a captain... Michael Franzese was in his crew

Re: Ranks before becoming boss

by B. » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:04 pm

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:06 pm Thanks for the correction, I must have glossed over that part in the book.

Benny Gallo is another who might have been under Bonventre, when he was killed I seem to remember it was mentioned Gallo was the new “King of Williamsburg”, replacing Bonventre. Could be the crew got split up, I remember you saying the Bonannos crew succession can be murky/non linear.

It’s been awhile since I’ve read the book, but Bonanno wasn’t made during that sit down right? That’s why Maranzano represented him?
I suspect Benny Gallo may have been a captain of another crew. Because news reports had no idea what went on inside the organization, they probably just knew Gallo and Bonventre were both important men in Williamsburg when the reality is so much of that Family was in Williamsburg they no doubt had multiple crews there. Most of the guys arrested with Gallo were from Salemi and that area.

I go into him in one of the sections in this long article but Bonanno doesn't mention him so we can only speculate who he was and why he died: https://mafia.substack.com/p/a-different-set-of-gallos

The guys from Salemi, Santa Ninfa, and Partanna go back to the earliest days but they were closely linked for generations (you and I have talked about it) so I wouldn't be surprised if they had their own little group under Gallo. Would be interesting if Gaspare Messina was an earlier leader over them.

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