by HairyKnuckles » Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:23 am
B. wrote:This might be treading on territory we've talked about before, but as we learn more I feel there is more to discuss.
One thing to note is that the idea of unqualified members being made seems to have been around forever, long before the 1950s and up to present day. I'd consider this "Damn kids!" syndrome, as it seems every generation thinks that the younger generations are less disciplined, lack the same values, etc.
My questions are:
- What was the evidence for Scalise and/or Anastasia selling memberships? Where did the rumor, whether true or not, come from?
- Is there anything else that backs up this idea that Genovese wanted to shelve unqualified members?
- Are there any examples of members who were "officially" deemed unqualified (whether they allegedly bought memberships or not)?
There were some informants in the early 1960s talking about members who had been initiated but unqualified and not worthy of membership. But I don´t think any specific reasons for their unworthiness were explained. Informants talked about that these men would probably be thrown out of the Mafia. Perhaps JD has some info on this, but I don´t think that I have ever seen (on MF or documents found/obtained elsewhere) any specific names being mentioned regarding this. I´m sure there were a lot of members who were considered not worthy but these views may have been reflections of what the informants felt about certain members. Perhaps they had beefs with them or were just jealous of their success?
I think the rumors on Scalise/Anastasia selling memberships started with Valachi. I think he mentioned it during the hearings and during the debriefings prior to the hearings. Some of the debriefings can be found on MF. I have no clue if Valachi was correct, or if he just embellished the selling of membership thing. In many ways, he strikes me as someone who wants to be more important than he really was, giving answers to questions he really didn´t know that much about. Who knows, the selling of memberships could have been just a rumor he had picked up from the street, going from mouth to mouth before reaching him? And who knows, it could have been just an excuse from Anastasia so he could get rid of Scalise. The reason why I´m sceptical about it is that it just don´t seem right. A boss and an underboss selling memberships, in that time and age...what a disgrace! Don Vito Cascioferro would be turning in his grave if he knew.
So funny! Some time ago they found a plaque with the description saying mankind is doomed and the world is about to end because the younger generation lacks discipline, lacks the same values and can not be reasoned with. They determined the plaque originated from a time way before the birth of Christ!
[quote="B."]This might be treading on territory we've talked about before, but as we learn more I feel there is more to discuss.
One thing to note is that the idea of unqualified members being made seems to have been around forever, long before the 1950s and up to present day. I'd consider this "Damn kids!" syndrome, as it [b]seems every generation thinks that the younger generations are less disciplined, lack the same values, etc.[/b]
My questions are:
- What was the evidence for Scalise and/or Anastasia selling memberships? Where did the rumor, whether true or not, come from?
- Is there anything else that backs up this idea that Genovese wanted to shelve unqualified members?
- Are there any examples of members who were "officially" deemed unqualified (whether they allegedly bought memberships or not)?[/quote]
There were some informants in the early 1960s talking about members who had been initiated but unqualified and not worthy of membership. But I don´t think any specific reasons for their unworthiness were explained. Informants talked about that these men would probably be thrown out of the Mafia. Perhaps JD has some info on this, but I don´t think that I have ever seen (on MF or documents found/obtained elsewhere) any specific names being mentioned regarding this. I´m sure there were a lot of members who were considered not worthy but these views may have been reflections of what the informants felt about certain members. Perhaps they had beefs with them or were just jealous of their success?
I think the rumors on Scalise/Anastasia selling memberships started with Valachi. I think he mentioned it during the hearings and during the debriefings prior to the hearings. Some of the debriefings can be found on MF. I have no clue if Valachi was correct, or if he just embellished the selling of membership thing. In many ways, he strikes me as someone who wants to be more important than he really was, giving answers to questions he really didn´t know that much about. Who knows, the selling of memberships could have been just a rumor he had picked up from the street, going from mouth to mouth before reaching him? And who knows, it could have been just an excuse from Anastasia so he could get rid of Scalise. The reason why I´m sceptical about it is that it just don´t seem right. A boss and an underboss selling memberships, in that time and age...what a disgrace! Don Vito Cascioferro would be turning in his grave if he knew.
[b]So funny![/b] Some time ago they found a plaque with the description saying mankind is doomed and the world is about to end because the younger generation lacks discipline, lacks the same values and can not be reasoned with. They determined the plaque originated from a time way before the birth of Christ!