THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Extortion wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:02 pm

crabby appleton wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 7:21 pm

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:11 am Apr 12, 2020 6:09 am

felice wrote: 1. After Carlo Gambino's death Paul Castellano asked for sicilian mafia to officially support him. Antonino Inzerillo, Gambino family captain was sent to sicily to get a commission approval to support Castellano. Castellano could have had problems with a side of the family.
Castellano got sicilian mafia support but he had to allow sicilian mafiosi to increase their heroin business. Castellano took money from Catalano and Rosario Naimo even if they were not members of his family.

2. Pasquale Conte paid 100k for his membership, it was a well known fact among family members

Why would Pasquale Conte pay 100k for membership?

How would he benefit by or what would he gain by doing that?

Was it for prestige or recognition? Ego gratification?

Would membership help grow or expand his legitimate business (Key Foods)?

Would membership permit him to use his legitimate business to be used for illegitimate purposes like money laundering or passing drugs through with the legitimate products? Although I would think he wouldn't necessarily have to be a member to allow his business to be used in that way. An associate with a legitimate business could function in that capacity. I think.

Or was it a combination of these?

In a documentary Michael Franzese said that the life of the Mafia is evil and destroyed the family of practically anyone he knew who had anything to do with it.

Some guys desire to get in very badly and when they finally get there after awhile they sour on the idea and regret it because they realize they are trapped or it is not what they once believed it to be and resent or dislike some of the people telling them what to do.

But Conte paid 100k to get in. Why would he do that? Or was his case different?

Was he already close or related to higher level members within the Gambino Family which assured his treatment experience and exposure would be different from that a run of the mill nobody who based on the level of promise potential and trust they exhibited and exuded, especially during the prohibition phase when they wanted to be noticed and were being scrutinized, were eventually granted entrance only to discover they are no different than a disposable dish rag?

Apparently Conte did not pay 100k for that.

He probably got the button for protection, power and status, my thug.

eboli wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:01 am

stortvloed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:22 am I get that I'm "not authorised to read this forum", how could I change this? Sorry the n00b questions

Did felice ever state his sources there?

Stick around, be active on the forum. Eventually, Soliai might give you the rights to access it. Felice is a researcher who provides information straight from Italian law enforcement sources.

stortvloed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:22 am I get that I'm "not authorised to read this forum", how could I change this? Sorry the n00b questions

Did felice ever state his sources there?

stortvloed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:52 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:11 am Apr 12, 2020 6:09 am

felice wrote: 1. After Carlo Gambino's death Paul Castellano asked for sicilian mafia to officially support him. Antonino Inzerillo, Gambino family captain was sent to sicily to get a commission approval to support Castellano. Castellano could have had problems with a side of the family.
Castellano got sicilian mafia support but he had to allow sicilian mafiosi to increase their heroin business. Castellano took money from Catalano and Rosario Naimo even if they were not members of his family.

2. Pasquale Conte paid 100k for his membership, it was a well known fact among family members

3. After Castellano's death main Gotti's preoccupation was a possible retalation from sicilians so he kept visiting John Gambino to keep him close and so did Gravano who used to be the mid man between them. Gravano visited Gambino at least once a week
Gotti once called Gambino for a meeting, Gambino refused saying he didn't have anything to say
Another time Gotti told to Joe Gambino he wanted to meet John to pay his respect but John refused again to meet him
Another time Gotti got furious because in his presence Gambino ignored him by talking to FNU Russo in sicilian
Gambino got offended because Gotti called him "skipper"
Again Gotti called Gambino for a meeting but Gambino replied he was not going to meet anyone that month
Gambino was disturbed about not being informed or consulted about Castellano's death, he considered it highly disrespecting

4. When Scarfo started to have legal problems John Gambino pushed to have Albert Pontani as new boss in Philadelphia, Gotti agreed. There was a meeting in NJ

5. John Gambino had a serious beef with James Failla, investigators were told to be ready because violent acts could happen

6. After Castellano's death Tommy Gambino and Frank Paul Gambino son of Paul got closer to John Gambino to have his protection. Tommy Gambino became a very frequent visitor of Caffè Giardino. Frank Gambino was a Ferro foods exutive. The Gambinos used that company to move heroin

7. John Gambino was seen as very old school mafioso and several members wanted him as Gotti successor

8. Philip "Rusty" LNU was a Gambino's associate who used to be the street tax collector in Bensonhurst. He later had problems with John Gambino. This Rusty once appeared in Fortune magazine. He was a business man

9. In the 80s the Gambino brothers were running an empire of 200 pizzerias all under control of Ferro foods. Several Gambinos relatives were employed there. Joe Gambino used to make 30k a week just with some videopoker machines placed in bensonhurst. Sources estimated the Gambinos had milions and they still make milions.

10. Giuseppe Gambino killed in 1988 by Oliveri was an heroin trafficker and answered to Cheech Gambino.

11. Ceech Gambino was a rising star among organized crime figures in Brooklyn, if he wouldn't have been arrested he would have become a mafia leader according to fbi. Gambino was a sicilian mafia leader and headed a group of about 30 sicilian mobsters

12. Simone Zito and Tony Mannino started to be pretty indipendent after they killed a guy. Tony Mannino even sent John Gambino to fuck himself off. Zito once sitted on John Gambino's desk. Gambino said he was going to lose his patience. Most efficent mobster in John Gambino's crew was Salvatore Rina, a real gangster.

13. Gambino and his crew have been involved in at least 7 murders

What is the source for the above?

stortvloed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:52 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:11 am Apr 12, 2020 6:09 am

felice wrote: 1. After Carlo Gambino's death Paul Castellano asked for sicilian mafia to officially support him. Antonino Inzerillo, Gambino family captain was sent to sicily to get a commission approval to support Castellano. Castellano could have had problems with a side of the family.
Castellano got sicilian mafia support but he had to allow sicilian mafiosi to increase their heroin business. Castellano took money from Catalano and Rosario Naimo even if they were not members of his family.

2. Pasquale Conte paid 100k for his membership, it was a well known fact among family members

3. After Castellano's death main Gotti's preoccupation was a possible retalation from sicilians so he kept visiting John Gambino to keep him close and so did Gravano who used to be the mid man between them. Gravano visited Gambino at least once a week
Gotti once called Gambino for a meeting, Gambino refused saying he didn't have anything to say
Another time Gotti told to Joe Gambino he wanted to meet John to pay his respect but John refused again to meet him
Another time Gotti got furious because in his presence Gambino ignored him by talking to FNU Russo in sicilian
Gambino got offended because Gotti called him "skipper"
Again Gotti called Gambino for a meeting but Gambino replied he was not going to meet anyone that month
Gambino was disturbed about not being informed or consulted about Castellano's death, he considered it highly disrespecting

4. When Scarfo started to have legal problems John Gambino pushed to have Albert Pontani as new boss in Philadelphia, Gotti agreed. There was a meeting in NJ

5. John Gambino had a serious beef with James Failla, investigators were told to be ready because violent acts could happen

6. After Castellano's death Tommy Gambino and Frank Paul Gambino son of Paul got closer to John Gambino to have his protection. Tommy Gambino became a very frequent visitor of Caffè Giardino. Frank Gambino was a Ferro foods exutive. The Gambinos used that company to move heroin

7. John Gambino was seen as very old school mafioso and several members wanted him as Gotti successor

8. Philip "Rusty" LNU was a Gambino's associate who used to be the street tax collector in Bensonhurst. He later had problems with John Gambino. This Rusty once appeared in Fortune magazine. He was a business man

9. In the 80s the Gambino brothers were running an empire of 200 pizzerias all under control of Ferro foods. Several Gambinos relatives were employed there. Joe Gambino used to make 30k a week just with some videopoker machines placed in bensonhurst. Sources estimated the Gambinos had milions and they still make milions.

10. Giuseppe Gambino killed in 1988 by Oliveri was an heroin trafficker and answered to Cheech Gambino.

11. Ceech Gambino was a rising star among organized crime figures in Brooklyn, if he wouldn't have been arrested he would have become a mafia leader according to fbi. Gambino was a sicilian mafia leader and headed a group of about 30 sicilian mobsters

12. Simone Zito and Tony Mannino started to be pretty indipendent after they killed a guy. Tony Mannino even sent John Gambino to fuck himself off. Zito once sitted on John Gambino's desk. Gambino said he was going to lose his patience. Most efficent mobster in John Gambino's crew was Salvatore Rina, a real gangster.

13. Gambino and his crew have been involved in at least 7 murders

What is the source for the above?

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:11 am Apr 12, 2020 6:09 am

felice wrote: 1. After Carlo Gambino's death Paul Castellano asked for sicilian mafia to officially support him. Antonino Inzerillo, Gambino family captain was sent to sicily to get a commission approval to support Castellano. Castellano could have had problems with a side of the family.
Castellano got sicilian mafia support but he had to allow sicilian mafiosi to increase their heroin business. Castellano took money from Catalano and Rosario Naimo even if they were not members of his family.

2. Pasquale Conte paid 100k for his membership, it was a well known fact among family members

3. After Castellano's death main Gotti's preoccupation was a possible retalation from sicilians so he kept visiting John Gambino to keep him close and so did Gravano who used to be the mid man between them. Gravano visited Gambino at least once a week
Gotti once called Gambino for a meeting, Gambino refused saying he didn't have anything to say
Another time Gotti told to Joe Gambino he wanted to meet John to pay his respect but John refused again to meet him
Another time Gotti got furious because in his presence Gambino ignored him by talking to FNU Russo in sicilian
Gambino got offended because Gotti called him "skipper"
Again Gotti called Gambino for a meeting but Gambino replied he was not going to meet anyone that month
Gambino was disturbed about not being informed or consulted about Castellano's death, he considered it highly disrespecting

4. When Scarfo started to have legal problems John Gambino pushed to have Albert Pontani as new boss in Philadelphia, Gotti agreed. There was a meeting in NJ

5. John Gambino had a serious beef with James Failla, investigators were told to be ready because violent acts could happen

6. After Castellano's death Tommy Gambino and Frank Paul Gambino son of Paul got closer to John Gambino to have his protection. Tommy Gambino became a very frequent visitor of Caffè Giardino. Frank Gambino was a Ferro foods exutive. The Gambinos used that company to move heroin

7. John Gambino was seen as very old school mafioso and several members wanted him as Gotti successor

8. Philip "Rusty" LNU was a Gambino's associate who used to be the street tax collector in Bensonhurst. He later had problems with John Gambino. This Rusty once appeared in Fortune magazine. He was a business man

9. In the 80s the Gambino brothers were running an empire of 200 pizzerias all under control of Ferro foods. Several Gambinos relatives were employed there. Joe Gambino used to make 30k a week just with some videopoker machines placed in bensonhurst. Sources estimated the Gambinos had milions and they still make milions.

10. Giuseppe Gambino killed in 1988 by Oliveri was an heroin trafficker and answered to Cheech Gambino.

11. Ceech Gambino was a rising star among organized crime figures in Brooklyn, if he wouldn't have been arrested he would have become a mafia leader according to fbi. Gambino was a sicilian mafia leader and headed a group of about 30 sicilian mobsters

12. Simone Zito and Tony Mannino started to be pretty indipendent after they killed a guy. Tony Mannino even sent John Gambino to fuck himself off. Zito once sitted on John Gambino's desk. Gambino said he was going to lose his patience. Most efficent mobster in John Gambino's crew was Salvatore Rina, a real gangster.

13. Gambino and his crew have been involved in at least 7 murders

Ed wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:14 am

B. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:11 pm Valachi is one of the main sources for the "paid memberships" story and the way he explained it in his testimony was that the guys in the Bronx "paid" for memberships by making Scalise a partner in their businesses and he basically usurped control of the operation, in turn inducting his business partners as members. These guys weren't strangers, either, but established associates.

Alfred Santantonio said that earners were able to be made that way, but says nothing about it violating rules or protocol. He broke down some of the different backgrounds of proposed members and what they might do to qualify for membership, with earners appealing to the leadership through money.

Valachi's explanation is much different from paying a lump sum of money and isn't far off from any arrangement where someone's superior is given a piece of their business. If that counts as paying for membership it would mean half the organization bought their buttons.

My belief is that these new members didn't so much "pay" for the membership, but were seen by the tougher members as having taken an easy road to membership through "earning". This led to resentment and the rumor mill took it from there.

Santantonio also told federal agents that Anastasia killed Scalise for complaining to Frank Costello about Anastasia's alleged involvement in narcotics trafficking, which by then was against the rules. According to Scalise, Anastasia allegedly forced drug dealers in his crime family to make him a secret partner. It apparently had nothing to do with selling mob memberships. If true, that tends to support your belief that Gambino memberships probably weren't being sold in the way that Valachi described.

B. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:11 pm Valachi is one of the main sources for the "paid memberships" story and the way he explained it in his testimony was that the guys in the Bronx "paid" for memberships by making Scalise a partner in their businesses and he basically usurped control of the operation, in turn inducting his business partners as members. These guys weren't strangers, either, but established associates.

Alfred Santantonio said that earners were able to be made that way, but says nothing about it violating rules or protocol. He broke down some of the different backgrounds of proposed members and what they might do to qualify for membership, with earners appealing to the leadership through money.

Valachi's explanation is much different from paying a lump sum of money and isn't far off from any arrangement where someone's superior is given a piece of their business. If that counts as paying for membership it would mean half the organization bought their buttons.

My belief is that these new members didn't so much "pay" for the membership, but were seen by the tougher members as having taken an easy road to membership through "earning". This led to resentment and the rumor mill took it from there.

crabby appleton wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 7:21 pm

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:11 am Apr 12, 2020 6:09 am

felice wrote: 1. After Carlo Gambino's death Paul Castellano asked for sicilian mafia to officially support him. Antonino Inzerillo, Gambino family captain was sent to sicily to get a commission approval to support Castellano. Castellano could have had problems with a side of the family.
Castellano got sicilian mafia support but he had to allow sicilian mafiosi to increase their heroin business. Castellano took money from Catalano and Rosario Naimo even if they were not members of his family.

2. Pasquale Conte paid 100k for his membership, it was a well known fact among family members

Why would Pasquale Conte pay 100k for membership?

How would he benefit by or what would he gain by doing that?

Was it for prestige or recognition? Ego gratification?

Would membership help grow or expand his legitimate business (Key Foods)?

Would membership permit him to use his legitimate business to be used for illegitimate purposes like money laundering or passing drugs through with the legitimate products? Although I would think he wouldn't necessarily have to be a member to allow his business to be used in that way. An associate with a legitimate business could function in that capacity. I think.

Or was it a combination of these?

In a documentary Michael Franzese said that the life of the Mafia is evil and destroyed the family of practically anyone he knew who had anything to do with it.

Some guys desire to get in very badly and when they finally get there after awhile they sour on the idea and regret it because they realize they are trapped or it is not what they once believed it to be and resent or dislike some of the people telling them what to do.

But Conte paid 100k to get in. Why would he do that? Or was his case different?

Was he already close or related to higher level members within the Gambino Family which assured his treatment experience and exposure would be different from that a run of the mill nobody who based on the level of promise potential and trust they exhibited and exuded, especially during the prohibition phase when they wanted to be noticed and were being scrutinized, were eventually granted entrance only to discover they are no different than a disposable dish rag?

Apparently Conte did not pay 100k for that.

crabby appleton wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 7:21 pm

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:11 am Apr 12, 2020 6:09 am

felice wrote: 1. After Carlo Gambino's death Paul Castellano asked for sicilian mafia to officially support him. Antonino Inzerillo, Gambino family captain was sent to sicily to get a commission approval to support Castellano. Castellano could have had problems with a side of the family.
Castellano got sicilian mafia support but he had to allow sicilian mafiosi to increase their heroin business. Castellano took money from Catalano and Rosario Naimo even if they were not members of his family.

2. Pasquale Conte paid 100k for his membership, it was a well known fact among family members

Why would Pasquale Conte pay 100k for membership?

How would he benefit by or what would he gain by doing that?

Was it for prestige or recognition? Ego gratification?

Would membership help grow or expand his legitimate business (Key Foods)?

Would membership permit him to use his legitimate business to be used for illegitimate purposes like money laundering or passing drugs through with the legitimate products? Although I would think he wouldn't necessarily have to be a member to allow his business to be used in that way. An associate with a legitimate business could function in that capacity. I think.

Or was it a combination of these?

In a documentary Michael Franzese said that the life of the Mafia is evil and destroyed the family of practically anyone he knew who had anything to do with it.

Some guys desire to get in very badly and when they finally get there after awhile they sour on the idea and regret it because they realize they are trapped or it is not what they once believed it to be and resent or dislike some of the people telling them what to do.

But Conte paid 100k to get in. Why would he do that? Or was his case different?

Was he already close or related to higher level members within the Gambino Family which assured his treatment experience and exposure would be different from that a run of the mill nobody who based on the level of promise potential and trust they exhibited and exuded, especially during the prohibition phase when they wanted to be noticed and were being scrutinized, were eventually granted entrance only to discover they are no different than a disposable dish rag?

Apparently Conte did not pay 100k for that.