How do guys refer to other families?

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Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by B. » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:04 pm

Ed wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:05 pm Balsamo had another book devoted to the "White Hand," called "Always Kill A Brother." It purportedly told the story of the battle in the 1920s between the "Black Hand" (Italians) and the "White Hand" (Irish) for control of the NYC underworld. He called the alleged five-year war the "Ginzo-Mick War." Lots of recreated dialogue with known and unknown hoodlums. As I recall, Balsamo claimed it was based on massive amounts of research, but it couldn't tell you how much was actual or invented.
I can accept a little bit of manufactured dialogue in a member/associate's memoir given it is (in theory) from memory, but it's a huge red flag when outsider authors do it.

Joe Bonanno had a very intelligent explanation for his approach -- early in the book he says he'll put a dash in front of something where he's paraphrasing from memory rather than quoting directly. It's that kind of nod to detail that makes me forgive some of the other issues with his account.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by Ed » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:05 pm

Balsamo had another book devoted to the "White Hand," called "Always Kill A Brother." It purportedly told the story of the battle in the 1920s between the "Black Hand" (Italians) and the "White Hand" (Irish) for control of the NYC underworld. He called the alleged five-year war the "Ginzo-Mick War." Lots of recreated dialogue with known and unknown hoodlums. As I recall, Balsamo claimed it was based on massive amounts of research, but it couldn't tell you how much was actual or invented.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by PolackTony » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:23 pm

UTC wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:18 pm In Under The Clock, Balsamo referred to the White Hand, not in the common usage of anti-Italian gangs, but as being Irish extortionists. Anyone see any use of the term that way other than in his book?
In Chicago some influential people in the Italian community organized a “White Hand” organization to ostensibly combat the black hand, though IIRC there were some mafia connected people actually affiliated with it (don’t recall the specifics at the moment).

In some account of Capone’s life in Brooklyn before Chicago that I remember reading years back, he was alleged to have had conflicts with a “White Hand” that was supposedly an Irish gang on the BK waterfront, though I don’t know if that is apocryphal or actually supported by any evidence.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by UTC » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:18 pm

In Under The Clock, Balsamo referred to the White Hand, not in the common usage of anti-Italian gangs, but as being Irish extortionists. Anyone see any use of the term that way other than in his book?

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by ChicagoOutfit » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:28 pm

PolackTony wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:08 pm
B. wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:10 pm
PolackTony wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:05 pm
B. wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:43 pm Sam DeCavalcante used "outfit" to refer to many Families on his tapes also.

Cleveland and Milwaukee used "outfit" heavily as well.
If I’m not mistaken, I recall seeing “outfit” used a couple of times from some of the documents on NY guys as well, though I don’t have a citation at hand (maybe I’m just confusing this with the DeCavalcante tapes). Doesn’t seem to have been common there, but wouldn’t shock me if it was used occasionally.
Outfit is a pretty obvious informal term, so not surprised it was used all over the country. You even see it in the Old West with outlaws. I remember Nick Caramandi saying Chucky Merlino used "outfit" just to refer to the crew of associates who were tasked with killing one of the Riccobenes.

Chicago Outfit to me is the same as the names like Bonanno, Colombo, etc. It was used casually like it was in the other midwest/western Families then got picked up in the media and the members themselves latched onto it just like members in NYC used "La Cosa Nostra" in later years. I think it's given ousiders the impression the "Outfit" means some completely distinct type of organization when it's not.
100% agreed.
B. wrote: There's little evidence "mafia" was a term used by the organization itself in Sicily but when all of these plays and stories came up calling it that in 1800s Italy, you end up with the members themselves using it. Rocco Scafidi said when he was made it was called the mafia but when he got taken off the shelf they told him to call it Cosa Nostra. What's fascinating is Cosa Nostra became the main name in both US and Sicily around the same time.
Needles Gianola also stated that the Chicago family was referred to as “the mafia” back in the day and that later “outfit” supplanted it as the popular usage. Given that Louie Bombacino claimed that “Black Hand” was also used in Chicago, one might assume this was another likely case of a term popularized by LE and the media that became adopted by the actual organization (possibly trading in the currency of the term to invoke the terroristic nature of the old “black hand” lore as a way of building up a mythos around the mob. But, for all we know, it’s even possible that the mafia in Chicago in the early 20th century already called itself the “black hand/Mano nera”. We don’t know how they referred to themselves back then. FWIW, Frank Cullotta also claimed that before it was called the “outfit” it was called the “black hand”, in the context of his father dealing with an extortionist on Grand Ave back in the 30s).

Regarding the near-simultaneity of the emergence of “Cosa nostra” in both NYC and Sicily — given the apparent likelihood that the usage was first popularized by the Mangano fam, I think this speaks to the closeness of the NYC-Palermo network and its resurgence/restrengthening in the years immediately after WW2 and the reconstruction of Italy.
B. wrote: I think it was Ed on here who once said human beings just have a need to name things even when they technically don't have a name. Even "Cosa Nostra" was a casual euphemism used in the absence of a formal name but it became a somewhat formal name as we now know it.
There’s a whole postmodern/post-structuralist philosophy dissertation that never happened there, lol.
B. wrote: I brought this up with CC a little while back to get his thoughts. Borgata technically means "township" but seems to be used to refer to neighborhoods as well, i.e. Palermo. I wouldn't be surprised if it was used mainly among the Palermo families originally which might be why we see it in NYC/NJ where Palermo was so dominant.

It's interesting Bompensiero used it so much considering NYC was the area he had the least amount of contact with during his national travels. But he was a protege of Jack Dragna who came up in East Harlem so maybe Dragna used it.
That’s a reasonable hypothesis and good point on the Palermitani context.
B. wrote: Always enjoy getting into the language stuff with you Tony -- cheers brother.
Same here, bro. Na zdrowie 8-)

This is the first I’ve heard that the term “Cosa Nostra” started in the Mangano family. Do you have any more info on this?

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by FatmanFatfists » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:11 am

John Pennisi said He and his crew referred to bonanno guys as bananas instead.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by B. » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:49 pm

Antiliar wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:37 pm Vito di Giorgio used "Black Hand" in his 1908 extortion scheme, but I think he borrowed the name to frighten his victim. There were probably many cases like this where Mafiosi called themselves "Black Hand" as a sort of boogeyman.
Very interesting.

In a way it makes sense, because he would be violating the rules if he said "This is the Onorata Societa" or even "This is the mafia", plus it isn't as intimidating.

-

Here is the report where Augie Maniaci said "the mafia" came to be called "the outfit" in Milwaukee. He also says he only heard (La) "Cosa Nostra" casually.

Image

(The Allegra part is in reference him calling the Sicilian branch "the Mafia")

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by Antiliar » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:37 pm

Vito di Giorgio used "Black Hand" in his 1908 extortion scheme, but I think he borrowed the name to frighten his victim. There were probably many cases like this where Mafiosi called themselves "Black Hand" as a sort of boogeyman.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by B. » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:40 pm

One of the issues with the Black Hand is it referred to anyone doing it. Sicilian mafia members did it, but so did independent Italians (sometimes victimizing mafia members) and mainland groups. What makes it tricky is it was used to refer to multiple kinds of groups, not just Cosa Nostra / mafia.

If you do a search in old newspapers you really have to do your homework when it mentions "Black Hand". If you see Sicilian names you might be able to piece it together but many times they used it for anyone engaging in that particular activity. It doesn't necessarily indicate they were part of an organization at all.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by PolackTony » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:37 pm

B. wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:32 pm I'd be interested in knowing which made members used the term "syndicate".

One important thing is differentiating between what member sources said vs. associates or other outsiders. Would be curious which actual members used syndicate, as that term was most heavily used by the media, LE, and non-members.

Most non-member sources are less relevant to this conversation in my opinion. It's like when Gene Borello tried to say nobody uses the term capodecina/caporegime anymore and got smacked back down to earth by Pennisi and Franzese.
That’s an important point.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by PolackTony » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:36 pm

B. wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:18 pm Rocco Scafidi, Michael DiLeonardo, Greg Scarpa and others called the early organization the "Black Hand" also. DiLeonardo is well aware of it being the same thing as Cosa Nostra and Greg Scarpa was also. Scarpa said it was just the name for the Sicilian organization at the time because of their Black Hand letters (his mentor was LoCicero so he may have heard about it from him). Scafidi seemed kind of ignorant about the real history, but his relatives were definitely Cosa Nostra back then whether he understood that or not.

I think Black Hand was just the term in the media so members and their descendents may have latched onto it like they did later terms. As CC could explain better, "Black Hand" was a specific activity not an organization. It would be like calling the mafia "the Italian Bootleggers" as a formal name. Kind of like a more specific version of calling them the "criminal syndicate" (a term I hate). Kind of like Joe Bonanno saying mafioso was an adjective (which an 1868 Italian linguist said too) and it became a semi-formal term, "Black Hand" was accepted for a time as a convenient way to refer to the org even though it referred to one activity.
Sure, this is an example of a more general process where something that is a process or action is “objectified” and turned into a “thing” conceptually.

Another thing that might be important when it comes to “Black Hand” being adopted by the mafia, is that a major part of the currency of the mafia is fear. An economy of fear and acquiescence to their activities within specific social spheres/networks. As we all know, anxiety over the actions (real or imagined) of “Black Hand” extortionists amounted to a moral panic in US cities in the early 20th century. While this circulated widely among LE and the press in part due to nativist — and specifically anti-Southern/Eastern European — sentiment, it was a major cultural phenomenon within Italian immigrant communities at the time as well (e.g., the formation of the “White Hand” organization in Chicago). Apart from the widespread visibility of the term and the actual engagement of mafioso in black hand-style extortion rackets, “Black Hand” would be been a useful moniker for the mafia to adopt to “cash in” on the notoriety and fear that the term connoted.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by B. » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:32 pm

I'd be interested in knowing which made members used the term "syndicate".

One important thing is differentiating between what member sources said vs. associates or other outsiders. Would be curious which actual members used syndicate, as that term was most heavily used by the media, LE, and non-members.

Most non-member sources are less relevant to this conversation in my opinion. It's like when Gene Borello tried to say nobody uses the term capodecina/caporegime anymore and got smacked back down to earth by Pennisi and Franzese.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by PolackTony » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:26 pm

Antiliar wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:05 am Borgata is related to burger, burgher, and bourgeoisie. "The Modern French word bourgeois (French: [buʁʒwa]; English: /ˈbʊərʒ.wɑː, ˌbʊərˈʒwɑː/) derived from the Old French burgeis (walled city), which derived from bourg (market town), from the Old Frankish burg (town); in other European languages, the etymologic derivations include the Middle English burgeis, the Middle Dutch burgher, the German Bürger, the Modern English burgess, the Spanish burgués, the Portuguese burguês, and the Polish burżuazja, which occasionally is synonymous with the "intelligentsia".[4] In its literal sense, bourgeois in Old French (burgeis, borjois) means "town dweller"." As for borough: "The word borough derives from the Old English word burg, burh, meaning a fortified settlement; the word appears as modern English bury, -brough, Scots burgh,[1] borg in Scandinavian languages, Burg in German. A number of other European languages have cognate words that were borrowed from the Germanic languages during the Middle Ages, including brog in Irish, bwr or bwrc, meaning "wall, rampart" in Welsh, bourg in French, burg in Catalan (in Catalonia there is a town named Burg), borgo in Italian, burgo in Portuguese and Castilian (hence the place-name Burgos), the -bork of Lębork and Malbork in Polish and the -bor of Maribor in Slovenian." So all the words have a common ancestor. [Citations from Wikipedia articles]
Good overview. My understanding is that the old Frankish usage is thought to trace back (via proto-Germanic) to a postulated proto-Indo-European root referring to a fortified/elevated place (hills obviously being advantageous for a fortified settlement). The modern sense of “bourgeoisie” as referring to the capitalist class derives from medieval and early modern usages where “town-dweller” was synonymous with the merchant class as a protected group outside of the dominant class system based on feudal landholdings. This merchant class was the foundation, of course, for the emergence of a new system of production and production relations that displaced and abolished the various forms of feudal production.
Antiliar wrote: Getting back to "Outfit," Rockford, Madison, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City, and even Pittsburgh used the term. Cleveland seems to have used Outfit and Syndicate. In Detroit they used the Outfit, the Organization, the People, and the Syndicate. According to the Online Etymological Dictionary, "outfit" is known to have meant "a group of people" since 1883. It was obviously used as a euphemism for "gang" and Fratellanza just like Cosa Nostra was. Even "fratellanza" is pretty generic since it means "brotherhood" or "fraternity." In its formative years, each borgata had its own name.
It seems to me that, at least up until more recent decades, “syndicate” was probably the most universally used euphemism for the US mafia, given that “cosa nostra” was not in general use outside of the East Coast. Probably another example of an etic (outsider) term becoming popularized via LE and the media and then in turn becoming adopted by the organization itself. Like “outfit”, “syndicate” wad used to refer to both/either a specific family as well as the broader national LCN organization.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by B. » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:18 pm

Rocco Scafidi, Michael DiLeonardo, Greg Scarpa and others called the early organization the "Black Hand" also. DiLeonardo is well aware of it being the same thing as Cosa Nostra and Greg Scarpa was also. Scarpa said it was just the name for the Sicilian organization at the time because of their Black Hand letters (his mentor was LoCicero so he may have heard about it from him). Scafidi seemed kind of ignorant about the real history, but his relatives were definitely Cosa Nostra back then whether he understood that or not.

I think Black Hand was just the term in the media so members and their descendents may have latched onto it like they did later terms. As CC could explain better, "Black Hand" was a specific activity not an organization. It would be like calling the mafia "the Italian Bootleggers" as a formal name. Kind of like a more specific version of calling them the "criminal syndicate" (a term I hate). It's like how Joe Bonanno said mafioso was an adjective meaning bravado (which an 1868 Italian linguist said too) and it became a semi-formal term, "Black Hand" was accepted for a time as a convenient way to refer to the org even though it referred to one activity/process.

Re: How do guys refer to other families?

by PolackTony » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:08 pm

B. wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:10 pm
PolackTony wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:05 pm
B. wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:43 pm Sam DeCavalcante used "outfit" to refer to many Families on his tapes also.

Cleveland and Milwaukee used "outfit" heavily as well.
If I’m not mistaken, I recall seeing “outfit” used a couple of times from some of the documents on NY guys as well, though I don’t have a citation at hand (maybe I’m just confusing this with the DeCavalcante tapes). Doesn’t seem to have been common there, but wouldn’t shock me if it was used occasionally.
Outfit is a pretty obvious informal term, so not surprised it was used all over the country. You even see it in the Old West with outlaws. I remember Nick Caramandi saying Chucky Merlino used "outfit" just to refer to the crew of associates who were tasked with killing one of the Riccobenes.

Chicago Outfit to me is the same as the names like Bonanno, Colombo, etc. It was used casually like it was in the other midwest/western Families then got picked up in the media and the members themselves latched onto it just like members in NYC used "La Cosa Nostra" in later years. I think it's given ousiders the impression the "Outfit" means some completely distinct type of organization when it's not.
100% agreed.
B. wrote: There's little evidence "mafia" was a term used by the organization itself in Sicily but when all of these plays and stories came up calling it that in 1800s Italy, you end up with the members themselves using it. Rocco Scafidi said when he was made it was called the mafia but when he got taken off the shelf they told him to call it Cosa Nostra. What's fascinating is Cosa Nostra became the main name in both US and Sicily around the same time.
Needles Gianola also stated that the Chicago family was referred to as “the mafia” back in the day and that later “outfit” supplanted it as the popular usage. Given that Louie Bombacino claimed that “Black Hand” was also used in Chicago, one might assume this was another likely case of a term popularized by LE and the media that became adopted by the actual organization (possibly trading in the currency of the term to invoke the terroristic nature of the old “black hand” lore as a way of building up a mythos around the mob. But, for all we know, it’s even possible that the mafia in Chicago in the early 20th century already called itself the “black hand/Mano nera”. We don’t know how they referred to themselves back then. FWIW, Frank Cullotta also claimed that before it was called the “outfit” it was called the “black hand”, in the context of his father dealing with an extortionist on Grand Ave back in the 30s).

Regarding the near-simultaneity of the emergence of “Cosa nostra” in both NYC and Sicily — given the apparent likelihood that the usage was first popularized by the Mangano fam, I think this speaks to the closeness of the NYC-Palermo network and its resurgence/restrengthening in the years immediately after WW2 and the reconstruction of Italy.
B. wrote: I think it was Ed on here who once said human beings just have a need to name things even when they technically don't have a name. Even "Cosa Nostra" was a casual euphemism used in the absence of a formal name but it became a somewhat formal name as we now know it.
There’s a whole postmodern/post-structuralist philosophy dissertation that never happened there, lol.
B. wrote: I brought this up with CC a little while back to get his thoughts. Borgata technically means "township" but seems to be used to refer to neighborhoods as well, i.e. Palermo. I wouldn't be surprised if it was used mainly among the Palermo families originally which might be why we see it in NYC/NJ where Palermo was so dominant.

It's interesting Bompensiero used it so much considering NYC was the area he had the least amount of contact with during his national travels. But he was a protege of Jack Dragna who came up in East Harlem so maybe Dragna used it.
That’s a reasonable hypothesis and good point on the Palermitani context.
B. wrote: Always enjoy getting into the language stuff with you Tony -- cheers brother.
Same here, bro. Na zdrowie 8-)

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