THE BLACK HAND FORUM

B. wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:37 pm Could be Bill unless another code was assigned to him. I don't think it's been confirmed what his code was and he must have had one given how much he shared. The FBI assigns codes even if someone is a potential informant.

Ed wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:53 am The evidence I saw indicated Bill started talking at the end of December 1964, a few months after his father was kidnapped and still missing. So if Bill was secretly in touch with his father during this period, it's possible they were in cahoots from the start, but I haven't seen any evidence for that.

B. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:34 am I agree with the suspicion that the FBI was encouraging Bill Bonanno to keep/gain power in the organization, the extent of their encouragement (and willingness to condone violence) being the question.

Tony Lima's FBI interviews from the 1970s suggest the FBI was encouraging him to reclaim his former position of boss in the family, though in this case it was to fill the void left by the inactive Lanza. There are also indications in Frank Bompensiero's cooperation that the FBI was similarly supporting his ongoing desire to take over or otherwise receive a high-ranking position in LA.

I'd be curious if Harry Riccobene was still cooperating at all when he went to war with Scarfo. Nick Caramandi said he was told by Chucky Merlino that they wanted Riccobene dead in part because he was an FBI informant (which Caramandi didn't believe, but we know it's true). Unlike Rocco Scafidi, I haven't seen any indication Riccobene was still giving info in the 1970s and 80s but that's due to limited access to files from that period.

Ed wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:52 am It's common practice for dry snitches. According to Jimmy Fratianno's memoir, he fed the FBI incriminating Intel about his underworld rivals to take them down and move up the hierarchy. I'm sure federal agents were aware of what he was doing. (Wily Afghanis would allegedly rat out their tribal or ethnic rivals by falsely claiming that they were Taliban. Then, American and Canadian soldiers would often promptly arrest or kill them.)

Ed wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:52 am It's common practice for dry snitches. According to Jimmy Fratianno's memoir, he fed the FBI incriminating Intel about his underworld rivals to take them down and move up the hierarchy. I'm sure federal agents were aware of what he was doing. (Wily Afghanis would allegedly rat out their tribal or ethnic rivals by falsely claiming that they were Taliban. Then, American and Canadian soldiers would often promptly arrest or kill them.)

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:11 am

Ed wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:53 am The evidence I saw indicated Bill started talking at the end of December 1964, a few months after his father was kidnapped and still missing. So if Bill was secretly in touch with his father during this period, it's possible they were in cahoots from the start, but I haven't seen any evidence for that.

It's also possible that Bill decided to cooperate on his own and later owned up to it to his father after he reappeared.

Someone I respect theorized Joe authorized Bill's so-called cooperation as a temporary strategy to regain control of the crime family. It would be in keeping with Joe's Machiavellian ways. As Scarpa and Bulger allegedly showed, mob informers can sometimes manipulate their handlers.

I tend to think the FBI took advantage of Bill in a moment of weakness and fear, and it wasn't a strategy, at least early on.

As I recall, the MF doesn't have reports showing Bonanno cooperating after 1966, but I tend to think he did in one fashion or another. I believe sitting down with the FBI fed his ego.

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Here is some more info on Bill trying to negotiate Joe’s sentence in January 1966. It’s redacted, but i saw in another file it’s SA Richard Anderson, so it’s definitely Bill.

I think you’re right, that Bill started talking before he got back into contact with his father, likely told him and tried to use the preexisting relationship to negotiate for the sentence. There’s another file that says that Bill and a lawyer, I think it was their Tucson lawyer D’Antonio(if I remember the name right) were also trying to get the potential sentence reduced.

Not sure if we’ll find a definite answer to if Joe knew, but I’d guess that he knew at some point, and encouraged it to try and get a lighter sentence.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:06 am

Villain wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:51 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:14 am Good info on the longer standing tensions between Chicago and Bonnano (who, at least in his later book account, seems to have harbored a personal grudge against Chicago going back to the Castellammarese war).

Given that Bonnano was plotting to take over CA and AZ entirely, this would’ve certainly caused a major issue with Chicago, regardless of the pre-existing tensions. Since Bompensiero was close to both Bonnano and several Chicago members (Roselli, LaPorte), I wonder if Bomp gave word to Chicago about Bonanno’s machinations as well.

Well we all know that Chicago contributed a lot in their elimination and no wonder if Bonanno felt bad about it. Later it seems that Accardo had some respect for Bonanno because he appeared at Bonannos son's wedding and also, while giving away his throne to Giancana, Accardo also advised his successor that Bonanno was one of the commission bosses who was trusted. Maybe thats why Accardo was badly surprised when he heard about Bonanno proclaiming himself as boss of AZ and wanted to ask him if he was right in the head.

It seems that lots of backstabbings occurred at the time between Bonanno, Giancana/Accardo, Bompensiero, Balistrieri etc. and Im not sure if AZ fell under one group but all I can say is that years later Chicago still had interests with the help of their own crews which were located all around the same state, same as Bonanno together with some ex-Bonanno members, although the so-called "cold war" was still present between the two groups. I dont remember it clearly but i think that once or during the 70s one alleged Bonanno associate publicly called out the Outfit Lol Besides that, some guys from both groups together were involved in the control of an extensive network of massage parlors.

In “A Man of Honor”, at least, Bonnano makes it seem as if Chicago was always opposed to the Bonannos as members of the “Americanized” bloc of the Commission. It wouldn’t surprise me, of course, if Bonanno’s somewhat negative opinion of Chicago in the book narrative was colored by the events of the 1960s (notwithstanding the Cast War and the fact that Capone was a Napolitan’ and former pimp) and that there had been more cordial relations between them prior to the AZ takeover.

Nice info on Chicago/Bonnano cooperation in the massage parlors in AZ. We know that years later Elmo Amarante was operating a strip club in South Suburban Chicago (and the Heights crew of course had interests out West back in the day), so it also wouldn’t surprise me if there were some deeper connections around associated rackets implicated there.