THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **PolackTony** » Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:07 pm

Almost all of the structural/organizational info that I’ve seen on the ‘Ndrangheta pertains to Reggio province (and some for Crotone as well). I’ve seen very little info regarding the clans in Central/Northern Calabaria (Catanzaro, Vibo Valentia, Cosenza), past or present. Given that the ‘Ndrangheta clans have a lot of independence and are largely free to operate locally as they wish, I wonder how much of the info on baptisms, ranks, protocol etc applies to these other regions or if this is all mostly specific to Reggio and the clans elsewhere are set up very differently.

To give some context to my interest, there were a bunch of guys in the Chicago Outfit over the decades from these areas (Simbario, Vibo Valentia and Lamezia Terme, Catanzaro as well as all over Cosenza province) and some of them seem to have kept ties to criminal organizations or family in Calabria even up until the 80s (Rocky Infelise and the Frattos to the area around Taverna, Catanzaro, specifically). In the 1930s Chicago Heights capo Dom Ruberto was deported back to Italy, where he seems to have remained as a Chicago liaison (possibly involved in decades thereafter in narcotics trafficking to Chicago). He was from Sambiase in the Lamezia Terme area (as was his nephew Frank LaPorte) and there was a photo published of Ruberto and Jim Emery (also Calabrese from Cosenza province) posing with “amici” in Calabria, all looking like serious gangsters (I believe in the 1930s).

I believe that these other regions of Calabria had their own phenomenon of the old “Piccioteria” that emerged locally in parallel to the better documented Piccioterie of Reggio, which developed into the modern ‘Ndrangheta there. These organizations were probably influenced by the old prison “Camorra” groups that spread out into Southern Italy in the late 19th century. Certainly by the turn of the 20th century there was an organized clan in the Lamezia Terme/Nicastro/Sambiase area, as the organization was busted by the police. Interestingly, the boss of this organization at that time was reported to be an Antonio Ruberto.

I have no idea to what degree these local Piccioteria traditions persisted over the 20th century or to what degree they came to influence local clans in the modern era.

by **furiofromnaples** » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:59 am

ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:11 pm
furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 am
ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:08 pm
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:39 am Saggarrista is the highest level of the Minor Society. It's like a street boss, a guy who directly oversees operations and underlings.
But he would still be a rank lower than Santista or no? like officially people in the major societies are considered to be more superior?
Yes the Santisti and the members of Major Society are more powerful then the Minor Society but the most part of ndrangheta men are part of Minor Society and the numbers you seen on wiki are referred to members not the contrasti onorati that are sinply associates.
Thank you Furio, another question of mine is, does the member of the minor societies have to be blood relatives of the families as well or are they also allowing outsiders to be baptized in these ranks?

I only know Antonio Schettino a camorrista that in the 1980s was baptized and arrived to the rank of Evangelista and killed 58 people including Roberto Cutolo in 1990.
For the other thing,yes the force of ndrangheta is the family ties,so if you didnt come from a family in the ndragheta shouldnt be baptized.

by **calabrianwatch** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:07 am

Oh and last thing - the first ndrangheta trial was not with Gratteri at all - Gratteri arrived at mid 2000 but the important ndrangheta trials were already there in the 1980s with first pentito Scriva and then trial olimpia as well in the 1990s, a maxi trial in Reggio among others

by **calabrianwatch** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:04 am

Happy to chat more

by **calabrianwatch** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:03 am

Hello everyone - very interesting thread so far but I am reading some things that might need clarification .

Indeed the ndrangheta is best referred not as a collective name but as many - each clan can have slightly different rules. For example in the de Stefano clan there is no baptism and neither there is one in the Mancusos (various branches) while in the clans from plati they still do it. Most clans obey the family rules and might not include anyone else but others take on promising young people. There are no made members, just people who are baptised or admitted in the minors society. Technically the ndrangheta today is only in the minor society because the moment you enter the Santa you abandon the ndrangheta as you swear against it a to protect the society of the Santa. The Santa has been created in the 1980s/1990s to protect the financial interests of some richer families in Reggio Calabria. Initially only 33 members now many more. In the Santa there were people with double affiliations in cosa nostra in Sicily. There is no commission in the ndrangheta, the crimine as a body (not as a ranking - same word) is activated only when needed - most ndrangheta stuff is done at the clan level or at the society level. There is no top down approach. Abroad there are no ndrangheta members who are non Calabrian - they are associates only for criminal activities who can be non Calabrian but in order to really be in a ndrangheta clan you have to marry someone if you are not Calabrian.

by **ThutmosisChen** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:11 pm

furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 am
ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:08 pm
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:39 am Saggarrista is the highest level of the Minor Society. It's like a street boss, a guy who directly oversees operations and underlings.
But he would still be a rank lower than Santista or no? like officially people in the major societies are considered to be more superior?
Yes the Santisti and the members of Major Society are more powerful then the Minor Society but the most part of ndrangheta men are part of Minor Society and the numbers you seen on wiki are referred to members not the contrasti onorati that are sinply associates.

Thank you Furio, another question of mine is, does the member of the minor societies have to be blood relatives of the families as well or are they also allowing outsiders to be baptized in these ranks?

by **furiofromnaples** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 am

ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:08 pm
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:39 am Saggarrista is the highest level of the Minor Society. It's like a street boss, a guy who directly oversees operations and underlings.
But he would still be a rank lower than Santista or no? like officially people in the major societies are considered to be more superior?

Yes the Santisti and the members of Major Society are more powerful then the Minor Society but the most part of ndrangheta men are part of Minor Society and the numbers you seen on wiki are referred to members not the contrasti onorati that are sinply associates.

by **ThutmosisChen** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:08 pm

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:39 am Saggarrista is the highest level of the Minor Society. It's like a street boss, a guy who directly oversees operations and underlings.

But he would still be a rank lower than Santista or no? like officially people in the major societies are considered to be more superior?

by **ThutmosisChen** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:06 pm

furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:21 am
ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:21 pm
furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm
ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 am
furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:26 am
So are all Minor society members just associates? And only from the Vangelo rank of the major society onwards they are made members?
Nope. They are like a low level soldiers that if prove to be moneymakers or trusted killers can be baptized as santisti; the ndrangheta is more like the masonry where you more power you gain than can climb the ranks that are never the same with the last ranks was created few years ago.
So from which rank onwards would you call them made members?
The Ndrangheta dont have the "made men",if you're baptized you're a part of the ndrina and gain more power climbing the ranks.
We can say that there are members with more power than the others but are all inducted men.
I`m a little confused. You said "if you are baptized then you`re a part of ndrina", also " if proven to be moneymakers or trusted killers can be baptized as santisti", so basically the minor society is not regarded as a part of the ndrina because they are not "baptized"?
Sounds like the "baptism" you refer to is an initiation ceremony that is similar to people being made as men of honor in Cosa Nostra, or did I understand you wrongly?
If so, the Minor Society which as I understood is comprised of people who were not initiated into the ndrinas is similar to the associates(connected guys?) in Cosa Nostra and LCN.
You can compare ndrangheta with Cosa Nostra. In the ndragheta at every rank there a baptism with an oath. The santisti swore on Mazzini,Garibaldi e La Marmora,there are 2 society because la Santa was invented in the 1970s so the young and ambitious boys can made bussinesses with masonry,politicans and even the cops.
As soon as I have time, I'll translate all the rites and baptisms of the ndrangheta

Okay so from Picciotto onwards in the minor society and the entire major society are "baptized" in different rituals but the Contrasto and Contrasto Onorato are still only associates without being "baptized" in any manner am I correct? I read on the Wikipedia that Italian authority estimates there are 6,000-10,000 members in the entire Ndrangheta, this number refers to the "baptized" ranks or no?

by **CabriniGreen** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:39 am

Saggarrista is the highest level of the Minor Society. It's like a street boss, a guy who directly oversees operations and underlings.

by **CabriniGreen** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:37 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:40 pm From my understanding, one is essentially born into it, which is I think what Furio is referring to when he says “baptized” — the male children of ‘Ndranghetisti are already considered “members” of the ‘Ndrina. There are multiple ranks that one ascends as a member, clearly derived from Freemasonry, where one is “made” a Freemason (and interestingly, I have seen masons refer to their initiation as “making” a mason, possibly where that term entered the US LCN lexicon) when initiated (1st degree), but then has to pass to the 3rd degree before attaining the status of “master mason”. From what I gather, the Santa and the higher ranks that were invented more recently and mentioned above function something like the appendant bodies in Masonry that are distinct from the craft lodges but require one to be a master mason before being eligible to be initiated into those higher degrees (e.g., Scottish Rite, York Rite, Knights Templar, Order of the Rosy Cross, etc). So there are multiple hierarchically ordered ranks or degrees of “membership” and multiple tiered bodies within the organization. It is all very clearly heavily influenced by masonry (apart from the being born into it/blood family thing, of course).

I'll add, I forget whose book it was, but it was described as the Cosa Nostra evaluating recruits from the outside, to see if they are worthy of being let in. Ndrangheta monitors recruits from the INSIDE, and evaluate you to see if you are worthy of initiation into the Santa, or the Major Society.

I would imagine first, its blood relatives. Then its, are you from the neighborhood, and do they know your family and its history.

I posted that thing on Verduccis crew. He had Non Italians in it. 100 bucks, NONE of the Non Italians have a chance at making the Santa, but they might be Saggarristi.... is that the correct term Furio?

by **furiofromnaples** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:21 am

ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:21 pm
furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm
ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 am
furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:26 am
So are all Minor society members just associates? And only from the Vangelo rank of the major society onwards they are made members?
Nope. They are like a low level soldiers that if prove to be moneymakers or trusted killers can be baptized as santisti; the ndrangheta is more like the masonry where you more power you gain than can climb the ranks that are never the same with the last ranks was created few years ago.
So from which rank onwards would you call them made members?
The Ndrangheta dont have the "made men",if you're baptized you're a part of the ndrina and gain more power climbing the ranks.
We can say that there are members with more power than the others but are all inducted men.
I`m a little confused. You said "if you are baptized then you`re a part of ndrina", also " if proven to be moneymakers or trusted killers can be baptized as santisti", so basically the minor society is not regarded as a part of the ndrina because they are not "baptized"?
Sounds like the "baptism" you refer to is an initiation ceremony that is similar to people being made as men of honor in Cosa Nostra, or did I understand you wrongly?
If so, the Minor Society which as I understood is comprised of people who were not initiated into the ndrinas is similar to the associates(connected guys?) in Cosa Nostra and LCN.

You can compare ndrangheta with Cosa Nostra. In the ndragheta at every rank there a baptism with an oath. The santisti swore on Mazzini,Garibaldi e La Marmora,there are 2 society because la Santa was invented in the 1970s so the young and ambitious boys can made bussinesses with masonry,politicans and even the cops.
As soon as I have time, I'll translate all the rites and baptisms of the ndrangheta

by **PolackTony** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:40 pm

From my understanding, one is essentially born into it, which is I think what Furio is referring to when he says “baptized” — the male children of ‘Ndranghetisti are already considered “members” of the ‘Ndrina. There are multiple ranks that one ascends as a member, clearly derived from Freemasonry, where one is “made” a Freemason (and interestingly, I have seen masons refer to their initiation as “making” a mason, possibly where that term entered the US LCN lexicon) when initiated (1st degree), but then has to pass to the 3rd degree before attaining the status of “master mason”. From what I gather, the Santa and the higher ranks that were invented more recently and mentioned above function something like the appendant bodies in Masonry that are distinct from the craft lodges but require one to be a master mason before being eligible to be initiated into those higher degrees (e.g., Scottish Rite, York Rite, Knights Templar, Order of the Rosy Cross, etc). So there are multiple hierarchically ordered ranks or degrees of “membership” and multiple tiered bodies within the organization. It is all very clearly heavily influenced by masonry (apart from the being born into it/blood family thing, of course).

by **ThutmosisChen** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:21 pm

furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm
ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 am
furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:26 am
So are all Minor society members just associates? And only from the Vangelo rank of the major society onwards they are made members?
Nope. They are like a low level soldiers that if prove to be moneymakers or trusted killers can be baptized as santisti; the ndrangheta is more like the masonry where you more power you gain than can climb the ranks that are never the same with the last ranks was created few years ago.
So from which rank onwards would you call them made members?
The Ndrangheta dont have the "made men",if you're baptized you're a part of the ndrina and gain more power climbing the ranks.
We can say that there are members with more power than the others but are all inducted men.

I`m a little confused. You said "if you are baptized then you`re a part of ndrina", also " if proven to be moneymakers or trusted killers can be baptized as santisti", so basically the minor society is not regarded as a part of the ndrina because they are not "baptized"?
Sounds like the "baptism" you refer to is an initiation ceremony that is similar to people being made as men of honor in Cosa Nostra, or did I understand you wrongly?
If so, the Minor Society which as I understood is comprised of people who were not initiated into the ndrinas is similar to the associates(connected guys?) in Cosa Nostra and LCN.

by **furiofromnaples** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm

ThutmosisChen wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 am
furiofromnaples wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:26 am
So are all Minor society members just associates? And only from the Vangelo rank of the major society onwards they are made members?
Nope. They are like a low level soldiers that if prove to be moneymakers or trusted killers can be baptized as santisti; the ndrangheta is more like the masonry where you more power you gain than can climb the ranks that are never the same with the last ranks was created few years ago.
So from which rank onwards would you call them made members?

The Ndrangheta dont have the "made men",if you're baptized you're a part of the ndrina and gain more power climbing the ranks.
We can say that there are members with more power than the others but are all inducted men.

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