THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:12 am

Chopper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:31 am In the last chapter Destefano mentions that Charlie Luciano wasn’t worried when Valachi started testifying.

No shit, Charlie had passed on already

Lol that's pretty bad. Doesn't he have an editor?

Something else that bothered me from the breakdown in the opening post: Mussolini certainly wasn't "on the run" when Tresca was murdered in January of 1943. The war was going terribly for Italy so yea he definitely did have much bigger problems. I've always seen it written more that it was done as a favour or to impress the Duce rather than something he personally masterminded, but either way I don't know the real story behind the murder and it's probably just myth and legend tying Genovese to it in the first place. But the idea that Mussolini was "on the run" in January of 1943 is silly although maybe I'm reading too much into the synopsis that the poster made of the author's work.

Destefano mentions Mussolini being on the run in 1943 a couple of times in the book. To say that Il Duce had bigger problems at the time then some journalist in NY is probably not an understatement

He wrote a couple of good books, but this one is pretty bad.

Chopper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:31 am In the last chapter Destefano mentions that Charlie Luciano wasn’t worried when Valachi started testifying.

No shit, Charlie had passed on already

Lol that's pretty bad. Doesn't he have an editor?

Something else that bothered me from the breakdown in the opening post: Mussolini certainly wasn't "on the run" when Tresca was murdered in January of 1943. The war was going terribly for Italy so yea he definitely did have much bigger problems. I've always seen it written more that it was done as a favour or to impress the Duce rather than something he personally masterminded, but either way I don't know the real story behind the murder and it's probably just myth and legend tying Genovese to it in the first place. But the idea that Mussolini was "on the run" in January of 1943 is silly although maybe I'm reading too much into the synopsis that the poster made of the author's work.

In the last chapter Destefano mentions that Charlie Luciano wasn’t worried when Valachi started testifying.

No shit, Charlie had passed on already

massino .carneglia and vinny gorgoues great books

The book is actually going downhill fast and I’m loosing interest, lol. A lot of the same stories that have been told a thousand times, and the facts that are new are questionable at best.

It’s to bad, because he has written some solid books indeed.

Interesting. Im surprised the fact checking isnt up to par Destefano's books on Massino, Basicano, Carneglia and Gotti's Boys were quite good.

Chopper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:03 pm

OcSleeper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:39 am

Chopper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:31 am - He claims Vito actually didn’t have his wife’s first husband, Gerardo Vernotico, killed. He was killed after he had already divorced Ana, by thugs who had no connection to Genovese

Either way he still married his cousin

Destefano says they where ‘distant cousins’, whatever the fuck that means

What’s funny is that Tommy Ryan later referred to the Gambino borgata as “sexual degenerates” for doing the same thing.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:08 am Luciano was five years older than Lansky, came to the U.S. when he was almost 10 years old in October 1907 and lived on 13th Street at the border of Midtown Manhattan. Lansky arrived in 1911 and lived on Lewis Street on the Lower East Side before moving to Brooklyn. Luciano attended PS 19 on East 14th Street and later a reform school. Lansky later moved back to the Lower East Side and lived on Grand Street while attending PS 34 on Broome and Sheriff Streets. So at no time did they attend school together.

Yeah, I thought so. The book gets a lot of facts wrong. Using the Last Testament as a mayor source doesn’t help. Lacey never mentioned Lansky and Luciano being at school together neither, just the famous story of Luciano trying to shake Lansky down and Meyer putting up a fight. I think both Lansky and Luciano confirmed this version of them meeting in later life.

Destefano also mentions it could’ve been Lansky who tipped of Luciano being in Cuba to the US goverment, which is horseshit if you ask me.

I remember being impressed by Destefano’s book on Massino. It’s gone downhill since then.

Luciano was five years older than Lansky, came to the U.S. when he was almost 10 years old in October 1907 and lived on 13th Street at the border of Midtown Manhattan. Lansky arrived in 1911 and lived on Lewis Street on the Lower East Side before moving to Brooklyn. Luciano attended PS 19 on East 14th Street and later a reform school. Lansky later moved back to the Lower East Side and lived on Grand Street while attending PS 34 on Broome and Sheriff Streets. So at no time did they attend school together.

Read some more chapters. It’s really more about Vito’s personal life, and his courtcases etc. Nothing about the year he got made, for example, or how and when he met Luciano.

- His mansion in New Jersey burned down in 1937, under ‘mysterious circumstances’ and Vito got a $80,000 insurance pay out.

- Vito went over to Italy the same year, carrying 750,000 in cash and 2 million worth of letters of credit.

- Mussolini loved Vito, palled around with him and awarded him the title of Commendatore del Rei.

- Destefano gives litte new facts about Vito’s time in Italy, just the same old stories that’s been written about in a dozen books

- He does claim Genovese fled to Italy because he was afraid of Dewey and sharing the same fate as Luciano, not because there were already murder charges pending.

- He tried to have one witness against him blinded in jail in the 40’s. The man, Rupolo, had one good eye and on Vito’s orders inmates tried to take it out.

- When Vito got back to the States after the war, he only had the support of 2 capo’s in the Luciano family: Miranda and Strollo. The rest of the family still supported Luciano and by extension Costello.

- In chapter 13 it’s mentioned that Lansky and Luciano went to the same school together, something I’ve never read before.

- Genovese was the first to arrive in Havana for the famous Havana conference in 1946, wanting to talk to Luciano privately before the other bosses arrived.

- There’s really nothing new on the Havana conference in the book, plus Destefano quotes the infamous Last Testament of Lucky Luciano a lot. That’s not good, lol.

MightyDR wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:58 pm Thanks for the summary Chopper

newera_212 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:42 am I remember seeing a doc on Genovese that said when he came to America he first landed in Queens and lived there for a few years before moving into the City? Anything in the book mention this? I'd be curious to know where in Queens he lived, if true

There's a great article in Informer magazine that covers his early days including his time in Queens:
https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/683292

Awesome thank you!

Larry McShane and Dan Pearson did the Natale book

Was it destefano who did Natale book??

Thanks for the summary Chopper

newera_212 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:42 am I remember seeing a doc on Genovese that said when he came to America he first landed in Queens and lived there for a few years before moving into the City? Anything in the book mention this? I'd be curious to know where in Queens he lived, if true

There's a great article in Informer magazine that covers his early days including his time in Queens:
https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/683292

outfit guy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:31 am Thank you. The Costello book was a real bummer. Hopefully, this, per your notes, is much better.

Costello surrounded himself with gambling czars and political lobbyists. He kept his interactions with other mobsters low key and violence minimal. The only way to write a book about him is to write about all of these middle men, many of which there's a lot known about. There stories can get a little boring though to someone who wants to hear mob tales. It's mostly business and lobbying. Vito was more of a gangster so clearly it makes for a better story.