THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:45 pm It is easier to go unnoticed as an Associate than a member. By the time a guy reaches a point where he is inducted he has been active on the street for several years if not decades, has likely done time in prison and has been around several made members (including members with ranks) for a lengthy period. It is near impossible for the existence of a guy like that to escape the detection of LE. At best the knowledge of a guy like that getting made might take a few months or in rare cases a few years to leak to LE but it eventually will.


Pogo

Especially since in most cases, newly made guys are trying to get the word out about their new status, so that they can readily take advantage of it.

It is easier to go unnoticed as an Associate than a member. By the time a guy reaches a point where he is inducted he has been active on the street for several years if not decades, has likely done time in prison and has been around several made members (including members with ranks) for a lengthy period. It is near impossible for the existence of a guy like that to escape the detection of LE. At best the knowledge of a guy like that getting made might take a few months or in rare cases a few years to leak to LE but it eventually will.


Pogo

The feds have the bead on nearly everyone, MAYBE a handful of guys per family go unnoticed for any long periods of time.

I think of those unknown the Genovese have the most. And second the Gambinos with all the Sicilian zips obviously not all of them are known to American law enforcement


Ive wondered how the fbi squad reduction has impacted the way the FBI goes after and gets information about these guys. Before I got on this forum I followed the mob news but not as much before COVID. With all the recent botched cases I imagine the FBI ain’t putting the best and brightest in the LCN squads.

Extortion wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:38 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:18 pm There are a ton of guys we don’t know about. Easily 100+ guys missing from the charts on this forum.

How do you know? It’s said due to the amount of CIs there are the FBI knows within a week who the new members are because people talk and even associates because they all know who is made and who isnt. John Pennisi was an unknown but he said it himself he was always very careful.

Yes, obviously there are some but its not a giant number as the other guy said its no more or greater than 10% of any single family

Obviously there's a distinction between members unidentified by the forum and members unidentified by the feds. The original post referred to law enforcement.

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:18 pm There are a ton of guys we don’t know about. Easily 100+ guys missing from the charts on this forum.

How do you know? It’s said due to the amount of CIs there are the FBI knows within a week who the new members are because people talk and even associates because they all know who is made and who isnt. John Pennisi was an unknown but he said it himself he was always very careful.

Yes, obviously there are some but its not a giant number as the other guy said its no more or greater than 10% of any single family

There are a ton of guys we don’t know about. Easily 100+ guys missing from the charts on this forum.

Some high-level CWs have suggested the families operate at or near their caps, at least as of the early and mid-2000s, so that's something to keep in mind. The +2 rule that allows two extra members (not replacing deceased members) is also an indication the families were capped out when this rule was created, otherwise there would be no need for the rule (which was put in place to account for the massive increase in incarcerated members).

We can see from Pennisi's show that plenty of members haven't been publicly identified by the FBI. These days, barring indictments, the FBI doesn't seem to release membership lists like they have in the past.

Another factor... LE might well hear rumors of membership but they have strict protocol for carrying names as confirmed members. We have no idea how this factors into their estimates or what formula they use for those estimates.

There's no way to know but just personally I think for every 8-12 known guys there's 1 unknown. I think that's a good ratio but who knows man, it may be way off or even less than what there actually is.

SB1825 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:38 pm

Manhattan_ wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:34 pm There is no more WS - no one is left downtown on the WS - all the power went uptown to the Bronx. The WS is long gone. No Italian base - no social clubs - just a few staples left. The WS crew is just a memory. After Chin died the power went north.

“Westside” is typically used to refer to the Genovese family as a whole

That's what I was talking about. I was using "Westside" generically as Genovese. The guys I'm thinking of are all Bronx based anyhow.

At what point will people stop referring to them as “West Side” and start calling them “Westchester” lol.

Manhattan_ wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:34 pm There is no more WS - no one is left downtown on the WS - all the power went uptown to the Bronx. The WS is long gone. No Italian base - no social clubs - just a few staples left. The WS crew is just a memory. After Chin died the power went north.

“Westside” is typically used to refer to the Genovese family as a whole

There is no more WS - no one is left downtown on the WS - all the power went uptown to the Bronx. The WS is long gone. No Italian base - no social clubs - just a few staples left. The WS crew is just a memory. After Chin died the power went north.

There are quite a few younger/newer Westside guys who were made within the last 10-15 years whose names I have never seen on any of the charts or on this site. I can't imagine LE not knowing who they are though.

Obviously we can't say for sure but the FBI does keep pretty close tabs on the membership rolls, including comparing and updating their information with CI's and turncoats. I'd be surprised if more than 10% of any family is unknown to law enforcement.