THE BLACK HAND FORUM

B. wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:07 pm Speaking of Genovese consigliere:

- In the Real Thing, Valachi says Costello didn't become official boss until the early 1950s, so either way you cut it there is a period from the early 1950s until 1957 when there is no official consigliere identified. Pandolfo was dead and Costello was the official boss. They may have left the position empty during that time... the Profaci family went five years before electing a new official consigliere (1959-1964) but they had guys acting during that time. Did the Genovese have someone acting? Doesn't seem to be any clear info.

- When Valachi was told by Vito Genovese not to deal heroin, he said he was called to a meeting and forced to wait, eventually being greeted by Toddo Del Duca. Del Duca told Valachi that he liked him, the implication being he advocated on Valachi's behalf to Genovese. I can't figure out why Del Duca played a role in this meeting. He was a Brooklyn capodecina who Valachi didn't report to and it's strange he would have been involved in this particular issue, particularly as an advocate for Valachi.

- One of the duties of consigliere was to advocate for the membership. I don't remember if Valachi says exactly when the meeting occurred, but he claims he didn't start dealing drugs until the 1950s. Unless the meeting happened after 1957, it might coincide with the the period where there is no known official or acting consigliere. Maybe Del Duca acted in that capacity which would explain why he got involved in the Valachi issue. Just a guess... it's crazy we have tons of info from a made member during this time and we still can't say for sure.

Another possible indication Del Duca was involved with the admin is on the DeCarlo tapes, where Ray DeCarlo says at one poiint "Tato" (Del Duca) wanted DeCarlo to induct five new members, but DeCarlo didn't have five guys he wanted to make. This would have happened sometime between 1947 and 1957, when DeCarlo was inducted and before the books were closed.

DeCarlo had ties to Brooklyn, so either Del Duca was his captain for a time in the 1950s or Del Duca was helping the admin in some capacity. Can't think of another explanation for Del Duca instructing DeCarlo he had five membership spots to fill.

In the late 1940s, Eugene Giannini set up one of his smuggling routes from Italy to the US. He partnered up with Luciano and was described as a joint Lucchese-Genovese operation. Before they ran the route, Giannini, who was in Italy, traveled back to NYC to ask 'the bosses' for permission. It's not further explained who these 'bosses' were. It could be a reference to The Commission, the bosses of the Lucchese and Genovese families, or simply the higher-ups in the Lucchese organization, but it was implied they needed the 'okay' for the route to function. The informant who shared this information is likely Giannini himself, who had been an FBN CI for a decade when these events took place. The FBN viewed Luciano as an outsider who wanted to make a comeback in the New York underworld.

Could see Costello stepping down from consigliere to devote himself to the long-term acting boss position given he was basically official boss in all but name, but Luciano and Genovese didn't step down despite prison and being out of the country, so why should Costello.

If Costello were made official at a Commission meeting, that would put it in a five-year interval, i.e. '46, '51, '56. If Bill Bonanno said 1946 that would offer a couple years where Pandolfo could have taken an official spot. I've seen so much nonsense I don't know what to make of the "Havana Conference" but Luciano stayed in Cuba for over a year before he had to return to Italy in 1947.

If it's true Luciano didn't give up the official title until the early 1950s, that cuts close to Costello's prison sentence. Would be interesting if he had been official boss for only a short time before he went away.

If I remember correctly, In Bill's 2nd book he states that Costello was made official during a commission meeting, I want to say 1946. Joe Valachi, in his book, claims that when Genovese and Costello had their issue a decade later, Luciano still hadn't given up the position. And somewhere in my head is ringing that there was a rumor that Luciano preferred Genovese over Costello to succeed him, I'm not sure where I'm recollecting that from.

As far as the musical chairs of the admin during this period, if Luciano and Genovese remained Boss and Under until at least 1946, that would have left Costello as Consigliere and Acting Boss, Moretti as Acting Under/SB and perhaps Gandolfo as Acting Consig. Genovese returned in 1945 and maybe politics played a part in him keeping his spot if/when Costello became official or perhaps Costello/Genovese's relationship changed from 45 to 57. Mangano and Anastasia's sure did, we have evidence in the 1930's that they were at one time rather close.

IF we go to a scenario where Luciano held the position until later, that would pit Underboss against Acting Boss/Consig and you could see where the former might feel more entitled if it was a match between two men or he was passed over.

Maybe they've added you to that "Vexsome Requestors" list.

This is the Valachi quote for those interested:

"After he went away Willie Moore in Fort Lee, New Jersey, was acting boss for a while then they elected Frank Costello to act as boss but only acting boss until Charlie sent word in the early fifties that he had resigned and that made Frank Costello automatically Boss."

As we've gotten into earlier in the thread, Valachi blurs some of the dates in the 1940s and early 1950s (i.e. saying Pandolfo received a cut of a heroin deal circa 1952 when he was already dead for years), so wouldn't be surprising if this was a guess too.

Apparently the 1952 Giannini contract originated from Luciano, which could point to him still having authority in the early 1950s, but the admin could have also carried it out as a favor to him rather than an order from him.

I tried looking through Valachi's senate testimony and book to see if he gives any specific info about Costello becoming official but didn't see it. In his testimony he said Costello "automatically" became boss like he does in the Real Thing, but doesn't give a year.

He does give 1948 as the year Costello issued a new rule prohibiting drug dealing. Could be a sign he was official if he was issuing new rules to the family.

I'm fine with Pandolfo being an acting consigliere. Regarding Valachi's dating of Costello's promotion, I think he's off. It makes more since to promote him closer to Luciano's deportation.

Del Duca is one of those mystery men I would love to know more about. Would love to get his file, but I think the FOIA division is already sick of me, LOL.

Yeah, depends whether or not Costello retained his position as consigliere the whole time he was acting boss. Costello was official boss when Bill Bonanno was made, so his knowledge would have been after the fact... the question is if his father or someone told him the exact years Costello held the position or if he only knew he previously held it.

Valachi said Costello had little to do with the membership during that time, so doesn't seem he carried out the duties of a consigliere when he was running the family for the 10-15 years before he became official boss. Would make sense for there to be an acting one and Valachi described Pandolfo as the "Family counsel" and a "counselor", so he is the best candidate if anyone held the position, acting or otherwise.

I don't think there's enough evidence to completely remove Pandolfo from the admin for that era, but also not enough to definitively say he was the official consigliere. Carrying him as acting consigliere might be the best bet.

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Speaking of Genovese consigliere:

- In the Real Thing, Valachi says Costello didn't become official boss until the early 1950s, so either way you cut it there is a period from the early 1950s until 1957 when there is no official consigliere identified. Pandolfo was dead and Costello was the official boss. They may have left the position empty during that time... the Profaci family went five years before electing a new official consigliere (1959-1964) but they had guys acting during that time. Did the Genovese have someone acting? Doesn't seem to be any clear info.

- When Valachi was told by Vito Genovese not to deal heroin, he said he was called to a meeting and forced to wait, eventually being greeted by Toddo Del Duca. Del Duca told Valachi that he liked him, the implication being he advocated on Valachi's behalf to Genovese. I can't figure out why Del Duca played a role in this meeting. He was a Brooklyn capodecina who Valachi didn't report to and it's strange he would have been involved in this particular issue, particularly as an advocate for Valachi.

- One of the duties of consigliere was to advocate for the membership. I don't remember if Valachi says exactly when the meeting occurred, but he claims he didn't start dealing drugs until the 1950s. Unless the meeting happened after 1957, it might coincide with the the period where there is no known official or acting consigliere. Maybe Del Duca acted in that capacity which would explain why he got involved in the Valachi issue. Just a guess... it's crazy we have tons of info from a made member during this time and we still can't say for sure.

B. wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:15 pm Was doing some research on early Genovese family consigliere Alessandro Pandolfo and noticed some items of interest.

...

- Joe Valachi's book refers to Pandolfo as both a "counselor" to Tony Strollo and the "Family counsel." From my own research I've learned that Peter Maas and perhaps the FBI changed some of Valachi's terms so they would be more palatable to the American public, so it's likely Valachi knew Pandolfo to be the family consigliere.

...

- Pandolfo's position as consigliere makes sense within mafia politics. In large families, there is a tendency for different admin positions to represent different factions of the family, something we've seen in the Genovese, Gambino, and even families like Philadelphia. At the time Pandolfo presumably became the consigliere, Vito Genovese was in Italy and the family was being run by Frank Costello and Willie Moretti, who represented another faction. Pandolfo would have been elected to represent the Genovese-Strollo faction on the administration. There is no indication he was a particularly influential or powerful member, with most available info indicating some level of subservience to Anthony Strollo. Strollo, however, was a much more polarizing figure and it's possible Pandolfo was elected to the administration because he was a Genovese loyalist but also more agreeable to the wider family than Strollo.

I was thinking of updating the old historical hierarchy I made and rethought Pandolfo's position. I'm leaning to him not being the Family consigliere. Here's why: If Bill Bonanno is correct that Frank Costello was the consigliere after Saverio Pollaccia, he remained the official consigliere while he was acting boss from 1937 to 1947. Pandolfo could only have been an acting consigliere at best, or he served as an official one for about a year since he died in 1948. There was no real need for an acting consigliere while the official one was still on the street. So both chronologically and logistically it doesn't make sense to me for Pandolfo to be the Family consigliere. Obviously I cannot rule out the possibility entirely, but evidence-wise at the very least I do not see him as an official consigliere.

B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:24 pm DeCavalcante soldier Joseph Merlo Sr.'s brother was Frank Merlo, the well-known gay lover of Tennessee Williams and an actor himself. Interestingly, Joseph Merlo's grandson Joe Merlo III is also a gay actor and playwright, so I guess it runs in the family.

I guess the turd doesn't fall far from the faggot's ass.


Pogo

nash143 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:27 am

B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:24 pm DeCavalcante soldier Joseph Merlo Sr.'s brother was Frank Merlo, the well-known gay lover of Tennessee Williams and an actor himself. Interestingly, Joseph Merlo's grandson Joe Merlo III is also a gay actor and playwright, so I guess it runs in the family. His father is DeCavalcante soldier (possible street boss) Joe Merlo Jr. and other grandfather is former capodecina Pino Schifilliti. Online photos show he is very close to his father and grandfather Schifilliti, so despite being a mafia family known for killing their gay acting boss, they are at least tolerant of gay relatives.

Whilst researching the Merlos, found this about Frank Merlo. Interesting info about Mike Merlo (father of Frank and John) and that Frank was known as "Little Horse."

Nice find. Mike Merlo might be the same Michele Merlo that Louis LaRasso's father Alfonso LoRaso listed as his arrival contact when he came to Elizabeth from Sicily.

I'm a little confused about the exact relations, as there are a bunch of Merlos with the same first names, but all of them are related. It seems Frank may have actually been a cousin of Joe "Milk" Merlo Sr., not a brother. Let me know what you find.

B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:24 pm DeCavalcante soldier Joseph Merlo Sr.'s brother was Frank Merlo, the well-known gay lover of Tennessee Williams and an actor himself. Interestingly, Joseph Merlo's grandson Joe Merlo III is also a gay actor and playwright, so I guess it runs in the family. His father is DeCavalcante soldier (possible street boss) Joe Merlo Jr. and other grandfather is former capodecina Pino Schifilliti. Online photos show he is very close to his father and grandfather Schifilliti, so despite being a mafia family known for killing their gay acting boss, they are at least tolerant of gay relatives.

Whilst researching the Merlos, found this about Frank Merlo. Interesting info about Mike Merlo (father of Frank and John) and that Frank was known as "Little Horse."

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:27 pm

eboli wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:06 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:04 pm So Gigante harbored a faggot?

He didn't love him like a brother-in-law.

Patsy Gigante is an ass muncher.


Pogo

OHHHHHHHH!

I'll tell you one thing, If it was me this kid was spreading rumors about, he'd have something up his own ass. And it wouldn't be no cock either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UulBszifFpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6mtTnEiZ9M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeIf-9jE2mE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaCvFNH28lo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-vxHIyZ_dk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcwW31LEqh4

PolackTony wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:06 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:26 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:49 pm
Well, maybe they took the whole “Ivy League” of the mafia a little too literally. This was the Village crew that we’re talking about here, after all. And all the while they were calling the Gambinos “degenerates” for marrying their cousins.

I kid, of course. On a serious note, this could be yet another similarity between Chicago and the Genovese. There’s the story about Frank Schweihs dressing in drag to pull a hit. And then the rumors that both Joe Gagliano and Fifi Buccieri swung “the other way”. When speaking with Red Wemette once, he broached the subject, as a way of illustrating how the reality on the ground didn’t perfectly conform to the image we might have of Outfit guys back in the day. He confirmed that both Joe Gags and Buccieri were known to be bisexual, and further claimed that Frankie Laporte was another one. Wemette is a bit kooky but he comes across as honest to me, and is able to offer lots of little “slice of life” details on what it was like to socialize with and move around Outfit guys in his era. My take is that some guys went to Red and told him personal stuff because he wasn’t in the “family” and they probably just needed to gossip and/or get stuff off their chest to someone not in the inner circles, where it might come back to bite them.

Wemette also told me that Phil Amato’s (Grand Ave crew worker/associate) son Frank (also a GAC affiliate) was openly gay. Apparently some of the C-Notes and other hoods from the neighborhood would make fun of him and call him “Francine” but Lombardo and Jimmy Boy Cozzo wouldn’t tolerate Frank being abused or bullied. Red states that Cozzo in particular was a surprisingly “open minded guy” for his time and place, not the typical troglodyte wiseguy stereotype that we might imagine.

I was told that Willie Messino was another one. Red also said that Marshall Caifano had a prison "wife" during his stay - Alva Johnson Rodgers.

Caifano got a pass for that.

What are you gonan do? There's no women there. You're there five, ten years.

B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:34 pm Can't forget that the DeMeo crew had an openly gay associate, Vito Arena.

I hear Vito has been riding up the Hershey highway.


Pogo

Im not sure if the rumor regarding Gagliano is true....but i dont want to take this great thread in another direction

Well what do you expect from a guy named Fifi.