THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **bronx** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:42 pm

JCB1977 wrote:The Cleveland family had strong ties as well, especially from the 1930's-1980's. Tony & Frank Milano were major players around the country with strong ties to L.A. (through Dragna and Fratianno), Detroit, Pittsburgh, New York and New Orleans. John "Peanuts" Tronolone and Tony Salerno were very close and the Genovese Family represented them on the commission. Lonardo was alos close to Accardo, Aiuppa and Lombardo in Chicago. Through Maishe Rockman along with Bill Presser, Cleveland was connected to KC and Milwaukee along with Allen Dorfman in Chicago. John Scalish was particularly close to Joe Zerilli and Stefano Maggadino. Jack Licavoli's cousin Yonnie Licavoli in Detroit and also connected to St. Louis where the Licavoli's were orginally from. Stefano Randazzo, originally with Cleveland ended up going to Tampa with Santo Traficante Jr. Most important, they were tied to Las Vegas with Moe Dalitz. Moe Dalitz very well may have been the wealthiest gangster in the history of Organized Crime. He truly took his criminal empire and went legit to become the King of Las Vegas, something Michael Corleone couldn't even do

YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE EARLY TWENTIES, WITH LONARDO'S ,MILANO'S

by **Pogo The Clown** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:45 am

Chucky wrote:Natale testified that he and Merlino traveled to New York to meet with Andy Russo & Tommy Gieoli, I think this was in 1994/95 (this date could be off), he also testified that he, Merlino, and Mazzone met with more Colombo guys a year or so later.

Thanks for these details. I wonder if Natale's debriefings have ever been made available? Should be some interesting info in them.

Pogo

by **JCB1977** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:52 am

The Cleveland family had strong ties as well, especially from the 1930's-1980's. Tony & Frank Milano were major players around the country with strong ties to L.A. (through Dragna and Fratianno), Detroit, Pittsburgh, New York and New Orleans. John "Peanuts" Tronolone and Tony Salerno were very close and the Genovese Family represented them on the commission. Lonardo was alos close to Accardo, Aiuppa and Lombardo in Chicago. Through Maishe Rockman along with Bill Presser, Cleveland was connected to KC and Milwaukee along with Allen Dorfman in Chicago. John Scalish was particularly close to Joe Zerilli and Stefano Maggadino. Jack Licavoli's cousin Yonnie Licavoli in Detroit and also connected to St. Louis where the Licavoli's were orginally from. Stefano Randazzo, originally with Cleveland ended up going to Tampa with Santo Traficante Jr. Most important, they were tied to Las Vegas with Moe Dalitz. Moe Dalitz very well may have been the wealthiest gangster in the history of Organized Crime. He truly took his criminal empire and went legit to become the King of Las Vegas, something Michael Corleone couldn't even do

by **Chucky** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:48 am

Natale testified that he and Merlino traveled to New York to meet with Andy Russo & Tommy Gieoli, I think this was in 1994/95 (this date could be off), he also testified that he, Merlino, and Mazzone met with more Colombo guys a year or so later.

by **Pogo The Clown** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:37 pm

That could have been it. I seem to recall him making contacts during his prison stretch.

Pogo

by **AustraliaSteve** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:33 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote:Ralph Natale also had ties to the Colombos and had a meeting with them in NY shortly after becoming Boss.

Pogo

Were they his own links? I seem to recall reports that Bill D'Elia had taken him around some Colombos to introduce him as the new Philly boss.

by **Pogo The Clown** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:00 pm

Ralph Natale also had ties to the Colombos and had a meeting with them in NY shortly after becoming Boss.

Pogo

by B. » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:51 am

Ivan wrote:
B. wrote:
Bruno was [...] one of the biggest advocates for wiping out the Gallo faction. He offered to send Philly soldiers up to NY so that unknowns could hit them.
Haha... the "docile" don, gettin' murderous yet again. Never knew about this, thanks for the info. I get the feeling that eventually we're going to uncover so many more murders and murder conspiracies by Bruno that he'll achieve parity with Scarfo himself.

Speaking of people wanting to wipe out the Gallos, that Kid Blast is one hell of a survivor, isn't he? Son of a bitch is still around and still running a Genovese crew. He's outlasted pretty much everyone from the era, both in terms of staying alive and staying a free man.

Yeah, Gallo is something. Not just getting picked up by the Genovese, but to have the "success" he's had under them is pretty big. He's also stayed very low-key despite the infamy his name brings him.

Twenty years as boss in a place like Philly will definitely give someone a body count. Bruno is believed to have been involved in at least four hits as an associate/soldier and once or twice was said to have been a shooter, too. He was a businessman though and I think it's true that murder was a last resort for him. The difference with Scarfo is that even though a lot of his hits were justified according to the rules, he genuinely enjoyed ordering them.

Sorry, didn't mean to make this into yet another Philly topic. Thom Jones eye roll

by **Ivan** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:44 am

B. wrote:
Bruno was [...] one of the biggest advocates for wiping out the Gallo faction. He offered to send Philly soldiers up to NY so that unknowns could hit them.

Haha... the "docile" don, gettin' murderous yet again. Never knew about this, thanks for the info. I get the feeling that eventually we're going to uncover so many more murders and murder conspiracies by Bruno that he'll achieve parity with Scarfo himself.

Speaking of people wanting to wipe out the Gallos, that Kid Blast is one hell of a survivor, isn't he? Son of a bitch is still around and still running a Genovese crew. He's outlasted pretty much everyone from the era, both in terms of staying alive and staying a free man.

by B. » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:34 am

Here is all I have on that offhand:

Bruno was friendly with Joe Colombo and was one of the biggest advocates for wiping out the Gallo faction. He offered to send Philly soldiers up to NY so that unknowns could hit them.

Philly guys would also socialize with Colombo members in AC, like Joe Gorgone and his son Joe Jr., who moved to AC and became close to Scarfo.

The Colombo NJ crew was close with the Philly Down Neck crew, but the Philly crew up there was close to all of the different crews, I don't think there was much special about that relationship. Then there is Sal Profaci and the whole "Goodfella" tapes thing, since Profaci was related through marriage to Sal Avena. That was more of a personal matter, though.

Aside from that I don't know of much else. I've never seen anything to show that there were many longstanding ties or relations between the Colombos and Philly except one-off things.

by **Ivan** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:06 am

Chucky wrote:Philly and the Colombos

Interesting, I've never heard about this. What did this involve?

by **jimmyb** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:36 am

toto wrote:Agrusa, Impastato and Leone of Springield mafia family from Cinisi. Agrusa's cousins of Impastato's who are related to Gaetano Badalamenti definitely. Giacomo Impastato (also related to anti mafia activist Peppino) murdered 1982 on order of Toto Riina was married to Agata daughter of Gaetano's brother Vito. Agrusa's and Leone's also related to Badalamenti's.

Matteo Manzella a member of this family almost definitely related to former CInisi mafia boss Cesare Manzella murdered 1963.

Vito Badalamenti son Emanuele (Gaetano's nephew not his brother that's another Emanuele) married to a Bommarito almost definitely one of the Detroit Bommarito's. Many of the Detroit people are related from far (or near) with Badalamenti. Trupiano, Vitale, Randazzo, Palazzolo, Evola all definitely related. Emanuele's daughter is married to Pietro Alfano's son. Emanuele's mother was Finazzo who are related to Tocco's and Zerilli's. Detroit D'Anna brothers related to Terrasini D'Anna. Quasarano's are also related to these families.

There is a news report that Pietro Alfano was somehow related to Buscemi boss of Rockford. Possibly a mistake but perhaps not.

Sollena brothers of Gambino family murdered in 1982 also related to Badalamenti. One of the daughters of Emanuele mentioned above is married with a Sollena.

Springfield and Rockford had lots of Jatini and that's how they were connected to Antonio Riela. Francesco Polizzi's mother was a Brusca related from far with Bernardo Brusca and if you want to follow the link Bernardo Brusca was first of cousin of Giovanbattista and Ignazio Pullara who became bosses of Santa Maria di Gesu after Bontate was murdered.

Badalamenti is in the middle of so many relationships for these mid west families and even so in the west of Palermo province and some parts of Trapani. Rimi's are supposed to have many relatives in America according to some old reports I read but I never found who they were.

Right Toto, there was definite connection between Cinisi and Detroit, going back to early 1900s when you had Giovanni Vitale, Tony Badalamenti and Salvatore Palazzolo. Other Cinisi guys in Detroit throughout the years included Dominic, Manny, and Cesar Badalamenti.

And Priziola and Quasarano connected to Partinico org. Jimmy Q connected to CDG cosca through marriage.

The Bonnano org, of course, maintained close relationship with CDG family.

Detroit close with SoCal mafia too, through Vitale, Matranga, Polizzi, Mirabile and others.

by B. » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:46 pm

Great idea for a topic.

I think it's worth thinking about the different types of ties that families have, too. The Gambinos represented Philadelphia and handled political disputes for them as early or possibly before the early 1920s and continued to represent them through the 1960s. Joe Traina was the constant in there, as he was D'Aquila's man and was fortunate enough to continue to be a power under Mangano, Anastasia, and Gambino. Traina was a paesan of many of the early Sicilian members, so him representing Philly for so long probably came from the combination of his hometown and his position in NY. It could be a coincidence, but once Traina started to get too old and then die, followed by Carlo Gambino, we see the Genovese essentially take over Philly. The mutual Calabrian element could have meant something but probably had little to do with it. They really came to influence Philly once Scarfo took over, who was close to Manna and other Genovese members, but that was just circumstance. The common thing is that one guy (Manna) was still representing Philly much like Traina had before.

Philly had a solid tie to the Bonannos through their Castellammarese boss and members, but this was short-lived and not like the connections that would continue to exist between the Bonannos, Buffalo, and Sicily. Even the Sabella was said to have been approved as boss by the Gambinos. I wonder how much his Castellammarese connections with it, as it doesn't seem like it meant as much as we might think.

An example of a purely political tie is the one between the DeCavalcantes and Gambinos. Somehow, they ended up together by the time Sam DeCavalcante took over (and probably earlier) but it's not clear why. They have continued to be connection through present day.

In most cases you're not going to find ties like that where someone is representing an entire family, but you see a lot of alliances for various reasons. Marriages, relations, paesani, political, business, etc. There used to be all kinds of reasons for ties between families in the early days, but in some cases there were strong ties that don't seem to make any sense. I read Gentile's story recently and what blows me away is how strong the networks were and how well-greased their system of communication was. It was nothing like the primitive black hand stories. Connections were everywhere and these guys knew how to use them.

by **JCB1977** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:39 pm

bobbybats wrote:Kansas City had ties to Chicago, Denver, Dallas, NO, Milwakee,and St. Louis. The Cervellos of Dallas and NO were connected to the Cervellos/Civellas in KC. Vito (buster)Balistere a made KC guy was the nephew of the Balistere in Milwakee. The George Chiavola (KC) was the Uncle to Chiavola in Chicago and they were both the Nephews of Nick Civella. I cannot remember at this time if there was a family connection with Denver. The Brancatos in St Louis are related to the Brancato in KC as are the Simone's. Lastly Tuffy Deluna was related to the Delunas in NY.

Cleveland also had long standing ties with KC, going back to the Mayfield Road Mob days. Maische Rockman and Angelo Lonardo were well connected to Chicago and KC. Plus, they all had pieces of Vegas through the Presser family, Bill & Jackie. KC had its tentacles everywhere, but the Midwest families were much more united interns of working together than the East Coast families...but the families were more spread out I the Midwest. Chicago had it all...Imagine one or even two families running NYC? Have you read that book on Milwsukee and Balistrieri? I am thinking about using it. Everything I've read in articles and magazines as well as Mary Ferrell files, he was fucking brutal!

by **Giacomo_Vacari** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:35 pm

San Francisco had long standing ties to San Jose, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, and Genovese crime families.

San Jose had long standing ties to San Francisco, Los Angeles, Colorado (Pueblo), Dallas, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Bonanno, Colombo, and Genovese crime families.

Los Angeles had long standing ties with nearly all families, but their strongest ties were with, Colorado (Pueblo), Kansas City, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Bonanno, Genovese, and Lucchese crime families.

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Families with long standing ties.

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