THE BLACK HAND FORUM

cavita wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:53 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:02 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:29 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:05 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm Its amazing to me that no one has really been indicted on an rico or flipped in all the years its been active.

Good observation on the RICO thought. I know the FBI lost key intel on the family when Augie Maniaci was killed in September 1975, By June 1976 the FBI closed their files on the family because they said the members weren't observed doing anything illegal but I have instances where they were still involved and committing illegal activity. By 1979/1980 the FBI reopened investigation into them and were surveilling them hard due to the murder of a member and their narcotics, gambling and two, possibly three bombings. I think since the area FBI field offices were poorly staffed and they were having success prosecuting the Chicago family and the headlines that came with it, Rockford was never really a priority for them.

Towards the end when you noted how they destroyed documents... well, when I was in the military capturing some pretty bad guys and we were in the middle of an op and a govt official who worked for a clandenstine 3 letter organization with high security clearance told me in the middle of the moment he said,
"There is many reasons to collect intel, but there is only ONE reason to destory it" lol

Great comparison on that. I would have loved to get my hands on those files as they most likely named more members and associates. I had spoken a long time ago with one of the reporters that wrote the 1984 newspaper expose on the Rockford LCN. He told me he thought he had copies of those files in a box in his attic. I gave him time and touched base with him once in a while and got a cool response from him. He altogether stopped responding to my emails which was incredibly frustrating.

Wonder why he stopped responding. Did you offer him some money? Maybe somebody else got to him to make him change his mind.

No clue why he stopped contact. I never offered money and he never asked but he was willing to give me the files when he found them. He had told me there were other LCN members that I was unaware of so I really wanted them.

cavita wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:53 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:02 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:29 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:05 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm Its amazing to me that no one has really been indicted on an rico or flipped in all the years its been active.

Good observation on the RICO thought. I know the FBI lost key intel on the family when Augie Maniaci was killed in September 1975, By June 1976 the FBI closed their files on the family because they said the members weren't observed doing anything illegal but I have instances where they were still involved and committing illegal activity. By 1979/1980 the FBI reopened investigation into them and were surveilling them hard due to the murder of a member and their narcotics, gambling and two, possibly three bombings. I think since the area FBI field offices were poorly staffed and they were having success prosecuting the Chicago family and the headlines that came with it, Rockford was never really a priority for them.

Towards the end when you noted how they destroyed documents... well, when I was in the military capturing some pretty bad guys and we were in the middle of an op and a govt official who worked for a clandenstine 3 letter organization with high security clearance told me in the middle of the moment he said,
"There is many reasons to collect intel, but there is only ONE reason to destory it" lol

Great comparison on that. I would have loved to get my hands on those files as they most likely named more members and associates. I had spoken a long time ago with one of the reporters that wrote the 1984 newspaper expose on the Rockford LCN. He told me he thought he had copies of those files in a box in his attic. I gave him time and touched base with him once in a while and got a cool response from him. He altogether stopped responding to my emails which was incredibly frustrating.

Wonder why he stopped responding. Did you offer him some money? Maybe somebody else got to him to make him change his mind.

No clue why he stopped contact. I never offered money and he never asked but he was willing to give me the files when he found them. He had told me there were other LCN members that I was unaware of so I really wanted them.

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:02 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:29 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:05 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm Its amazing to me that no one has really been indicted on an rico or flipped in all the years its been active.

Good observation on the RICO thought. I know the FBI lost key intel on the family when Augie Maniaci was killed in September 1975, By June 1976 the FBI closed their files on the family because they said the members weren't observed doing anything illegal but I have instances where they were still involved and committing illegal activity. By 1979/1980 the FBI reopened investigation into them and were surveilling them hard due to the murder of a member and their narcotics, gambling and two, possibly three bombings. I think since the area FBI field offices were poorly staffed and they were having success prosecuting the Chicago family and the headlines that came with it, Rockford was never really a priority for them.

Towards the end when you noted how they destroyed documents... well, when I was in the military capturing some pretty bad guys and we were in the middle of an op and a govt official who worked for a clandenstine 3 letter organization with high security clearance told me in the middle of the moment he said,
"There is many reasons to collect intel, but there is only ONE reason to destory it" lol

Great comparison on that. I would have loved to get my hands on those files as they most likely named more members and associates. I had spoken a long time ago with one of the reporters that wrote the 1984 newspaper expose on the Rockford LCN. He told me he thought he had copies of those files in a box in his attic. I gave him time and touched base with him once in a while and got a cool response from him. He altogether stopped responding to my emails which was incredibly frustrating.

Wonder why he stopped responding. Did you offer him some money? Maybe somebody else got to him to make him change his mind.

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:29 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:05 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm Its amazing to me that no one has really been indicted on an rico or flipped in all the years its been active.

Good observation on the RICO thought. I know the FBI lost key intel on the family when Augie Maniaci was killed in September 1975, By June 1976 the FBI closed their files on the family because they said the members weren't observed doing anything illegal but I have instances where they were still involved and committing illegal activity. By 1979/1980 the FBI reopened investigation into them and were surveilling them hard due to the murder of a member and their narcotics, gambling and two, possibly three bombings. I think since the area FBI field offices were poorly staffed and they were having success prosecuting the Chicago family and the headlines that came with it, Rockford was never really a priority for them.

Towards the end when you noted how they destroyed documents... well, when I was in the military capturing some pretty bad guys and we were in the middle of an op and a govt official who worked for a clandenstine 3 letter organization with high security clearance told me in the middle of the moment he said,
"There is many reasons to collect intel, but there is only ONE reason to destory it" lol

Great comparison on that. I would have loved to get my hands on those files as they most likely named more members and associates. I had spoken a long time ago with one of the reporters that wrote the 1984 newspaper expose on the Rockford LCN. He told me he thought he had copies of those files in a box in his attic. I gave him time and touched base with him once in a while and got a cool response from him. He altogether stopped responding to my emails which was incredibly frustrating.

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:05 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm Its amazing to me that no one has really been indicted on an rico or flipped in all the years its been active.

Good observation on the RICO thought. I know the FBI lost key intel on the family when Augie Maniaci was killed in September 1975, By June 1976 the FBI closed their files on the family because they said the members weren't observed doing anything illegal but I have instances where they were still involved and committing illegal activity. By 1979/1980 the FBI reopened investigation into them and were surveilling them hard due to the murder of a member and their narcotics, gambling and two, possibly three bombings. I think since the area FBI field offices were poorly staffed and they were having success prosecuting the Chicago family and the headlines that came with it, Rockford was never really a priority for them.

Towards the end when you noted how they destroyed documents... well, when I was in the military capturing some pretty bad guys and we were in the middle of an op and a govt official who worked for a clandenstine 3 letter organization with high security clearance told me in the middle of the moment he said,
"There is many reasons to collect intel, but there is only ONE reason to destory it" lol

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm Its amazing to me that no one has really been indicted on an rico or flipped in all the years its been active.

Good observation on the RICO thought. I know the FBI lost key intel on the family when Augie Maniaci was killed in September 1975, By June 1976 the FBI closed their files on the family because they said the members weren't observed doing anything illegal but I have instances where they were still involved and committing illegal activity. By 1979/1980 the FBI reopened investigation into them and were surveilling them hard due to the murder of a member and their narcotics, gambling and two, possibly three bombings. I think since the area FBI field offices were poorly staffed and they were having success prosecuting the Chicago family and the headlines that came with it, Rockford was never really a priority for them.

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm Its amazing to me that no one has really been indicted on an rico or flipped in all the years its been active.

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:16 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:09 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:46 am Cavita, great write up. Seems like their connection to the sheriff’s department was the leak. Very curious about the file purge. I remember that coming out in the family secrets trial. I wonder where order came from. This also goes to show how little interest the FEDs had in Rockford.

I think the order came from LCN boss Joe Zammuto to destroy those files and they reached out to contacts at the police department to do just that. The feds tried their dogged best to prosecute and indict the family since 1964 but were largely unsuccessful. They made mention they desired to have an informant within the family but they admitted they were unable to because the family was too tight-knit. Since 1964 they were only able to indict two members- one in 1971 and one in 1973 on charges they were unable to connect to LCN matters. The feds spent a lot of money in the 1980s trying to do controlled narcotics buys relating to the family's drug operation but with all that money spent they weren't able to snag a member. It seems in this case that indictments didn't show a level of activity on the part of an LCN family rather they remained active no matter how the feds tried.

Cavita, did any LCN members from other cities attend Joe Zammuto’s funeral? And was Zammuto close to anyone in Chicago?

cavita wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:09 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:46 am Cavita, great write up. Seems like their connection to the sheriff’s department was the leak. Very curious about the file purge. I remember that coming out in the family secrets trial. I wonder where order came from. This also goes to show how little interest the FEDs had in Rockford.

I think the order came from LCN boss Joe Zammuto to destroy those files and they reached out to contacts at the police department to do just that. The feds tried their dogged best to prosecute and indict the family since 1964 but were largely unsuccessful. They made mention they desired to have an informant within the family but they admitted they were unable to because the family was too tight-knit. Since 1964 they were only able to indict two members- one in 1971 and one in 1973 on charges they were unable to connect to LCN matters. The feds spent a lot of money in the 1980s trying to do controlled narcotics buys relating to the family's drug operation but with all that money spent they weren't able to snag a member. It seems in this case that indictments didn't show a level of activity on the part of an LCN family rather they remained active no matter how the feds tried.

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:46 am Cavita, great write up. Seems like their connection to the sheriff’s department was the leak. Very curious about the file purge. I remember that coming out in the family secrets trial. I wonder where order came from. This also goes to show how little interest the FEDs had in Rockford.