THE BLACK HAND FORUM

scagghiuni wrote:

toto wrote:Macri probably wasn't made by Riina. It happened in 1950s at the request of Anastasia and Ida via Lucky Luciano. I think it was Palermo guys so probably Greco cousins from Ciaculli. Nuvoletta also was originally under Ciaculli family and was only later under Corleone direct. Gionta clan was under Bontate originally.

cosa nostra played a strategic role in the camorra wars the nco (cutolo) was supported by bontate-inzerillo's and the nuova famiglia (nuvoletta and casalesi) was supported by the corleonesi

Buscetta said Bontate told him in 1980 there was 3 families in Napoli and there was supposed only to be 1. He said it used to be a rule Cosa Nostra can have only 1 family in Napoli. 1. Nuvoletta, 2. Salvatore Zaza and 3.Bardellino(Casalesi) all separate families. Almost all the bosses of Camorra today were under these guys or close to them back then. Palermo commission sent Salvatore Zaza to Alfredo Rosanova in 1978 to ask Cutolo to become a member of Cosa Nostra. He said no in a rude way and after this the NF-NCO war started.

toto wrote:

Lupara wrote:

toto wrote:Anastasia and Ida were calabrian. They were opposed to the strength of sicilians in America and so they tried to get a strong calabrian backbone in Italy.

And this was said by Buscetta? I'd like to see that particular document in which this described.

Addio Cosa Nostra. page 53 to page 55. Also mentions as members Paolo Destefano and Girolamo Pirommali as well as Antonio Macri.

I can only find info on the Italian edition of this book do you know if it is available in English?

toto wrote:Macri probably wasn't made by Riina. It happened in 1950s at the request of Anastasia and Ida via Lucky Luciano. I think it was Palermo guys so probably Greco cousins from Ciaculli. Nuvoletta also was originally under Ciaculli family and was only later under Corleone direct. Gionta clan was under Bontate originally.

cosa nostra played a strategic role in the camorra wars the nco (cutolo) was supported by bontate-inzerillo's and the nuova famiglia (nuvoletta and casalesi) was supported by the corleonesi

Lupara wrote:

toto wrote:Anastasia and Ida were calabrian. They were opposed to the strength of sicilians in America and so they tried to get a strong calabrian backbone in Italy.

And this was said by Buscetta? I'd like to see that particular document in which this described.

Addio Cosa Nostra. page 53 to page 55. Also mentions as members Paolo Destefano and Girolamo Pirommali as well as Antonio Macri.

toto wrote:Anastasia and Ida were calabrian. They were opposed to the strength of sicilians in America and so they tried to get a strong calabrian backbone in Italy.

And this was said by Buscetta? I'd like to see that particular document in which this described.

Anastasia and Ida were calabrian. They were opposed to the strength of sicilians in America and so they tried to get a strong calabrian backbone in Italy. You've to remember that mafiaat that time in Calabria against Sicily was like comparing amateur sports team against a professional team.

toto wrote:Macri probably wasn't made by Riina. It happened in 1950s at the request of Anastasia and Ida via Lucky Luciano. I think it was Palermo guys so probably Greco cousins from Ciaculli. Nuvoletta also was originally under Ciaculli family and was only later under Corleone direct. Gionta clan was under Bontate originally.

Just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, your saying American Cosa Nostra bosses requested that Sicilian Mafia bosses induct a Ndrangheta boss into the Sicilian Mafia?

What did Anastasia and Ida stand to gain by this?

Macri probably wasn't made by Riina. It happened in 1950s at the request of Anastasia and Ida via Lucky Luciano. I think it was Palermo guys so probably Greco cousins from Ciaculli. Nuvoletta also was originally under Ciaculli family and was only later under Corleone direct. Gionta clan was under Bontate originally.

When did Riina induct him, the 1960s? I'm suprised that he had that authority back then since he wasn't even a boss and the Corleonesi were still a second-rate group.

Lupara wrote:Thanks for that. But are we talking about the Antonio Macri who was killed in the mid 70s?

yes

Thanks for that. But are we talking about the Antonio Macri who was killed in the mid 70s?

Lupara wrote:Even if they really were inducted into Cosa Nostra, they were more than likely an exception to the rule.

I'd still love to see more specifics about those alleged inductions, to begin with who carried out the ceremonies and when and where did it take place. If Buscetta or any other credible source didn't offer any specifics, then it is simply hearsay.

ciro nuvoletta and antonio macrì were made by totò riina there are several rats that said the same things of buscetta a member of the gionta clan said they were all members of cosa nostra antonio iovine said the casalesi are all members of cosa nostra in north italy there are sicilians who are members of the ndrangheta... cosa nostra, ndrangheta and camorra are all nicknames they are not the real names, they are generic names, they all use the same rituals and codes, they are the same thing... before being called cosa nostra the sicilian mafia was known as the 'brotherhood' or the 'sect', the ndrangheta was called 'picciotteria', currently the camorra is known as the 'system'

Even if they really were inducted into Cosa Nostra, they were more than likely an exception to the rule.

I'd still love to see more specifics about those alleged inductions, to begin with who carried out the ceremonies and when and where did it take place. If Buscetta or any other credible source didn't offer any specifics, then it is simply hearsay.

in italy several calabrian and neapolitan bosses were members of cosa nostra they didn't answer to sicilians they had their own families in calabria and campania who attended meeting with the sicilians and they were part of the same organization

No doubt there was a mafia in Calabria before 1950s. There is no dispute about this. But it was a different thing than 'Ndrangheta phenomenon which is a combination of Cosa Nostra and the legacy of that previous mafia. That previous mafia was not considered to be anything serious by Cosa Nostra and it was not considered to be serious by Calabrese elements in Cosa Nostra in America. Otherwise, Anastasia and Giuseppe Ida would have gone direct and tried to increase the strength of that mafia instead of asking Lucky Luciano to approach Palermo and request they make some guys from Calabria as mentioned by Buscetta. This happened in about 1956.

It is the same for Camorra the modern day one has almost nothing to do with the one from 100 years ago. It is a creation of Cosa Nostra as well as local elements and especially Raffaele Cutolo who also had a tremendous influence on the 'Ndrangheta phenomenon. It's why today they are separate but they recognize each other as the same.

About the report, I will post it if I find it. It's in my old hard drive. Nevertheless it is a widespread opinion among the researchers of organized crime that the term 'Ndrangheta was first used in an article in 1955 by Corrado Alvaro a poet from San Luca writing in Corriere della Sera.