THE BLACK HAND FORUM

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:56 pm

TommyNoto wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:11 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:05 am

Bruno187 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:46 pm In the press release they said the 5 years was what they were subject to..as a max. They go through the whole sentencing report and see what kinda knucklehead you've been and figure out a recommended sentence. I'd say no way they get near the 5. Ciaccia as far as I know, doesn't even have a record, so he might get a slap on the wrist, Georgie the father a bit more "checkered past", so who knows, but even with him, I can't see him getting more than 24-36 months, if that much. Like I said, Andrew they're looking to make an example out of so with his priors, they might go as high as half...120 months, maybe more. I'm just wondering if they're gonna go after his house being that the indictment alleges he used money siphoned off of other jobs to build the house. That'd be a real kick in the ass.

That's why this whole thing just strikes me as extremely dumb. You hustle, to wash your money, to form a company like this one, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE of these Grandfathered in type construction contacts that came from a previous era, SO you can live in your Soprano-esque home with the peace of mind knowing the income is clean. You can claim it on taxes.

But these guys used these contacts to swindle, fuck up the whole operation, and probably gotta give up the homes anyway.....

How much did they bribe the guy for him to risk a 500k a year job? Millions? If not, hes dumb as fuck.
To me, it seems they went full Chrissy, with the fiber optic cable, instead of focusing on the job, and securing the next one, and the NEXT one after that.... now they are on the Feds radar... it's not like they still have the Unions yo use as weapons, right?

I dunno, in a very strange, weird way I was pretty disappointed with this whole bust. These guys were at the forefront of internet fraud before the 2000s even hit. I'd expect them to funding some Bitcoin miners or some other technical shit. Even the way they hid the money was pitiful, Bank of America? No tax havens? You KNOW they didnt hide all that Telephone cramming and porn money in some fuckin jerkoffs Chase account, like WTF?

Made me believe they ( Campos) wernt exactly the masterminds of that internet shit.

There isn’t a major construction project in the area that doesn’t inflate / invent invoices, in all kinds of ways, mob or no mob. Like cheating on your taxes and a steady flow of fast cash

Playing invoice games with materials isnt the same as straight up paying workers under the table on a what, 80 million dollar, kinda high profile job? I dont know how this shit works.... Do the city and state audit the job after? Do all those people file taxes at the end of the year? If so, how do you clean that up? How many tax returns you gotta massage? It seems like you are asking to get caught. Remember, the IRS gotta get their taste from the wages, I wouldnt fuck with that, especially if I dont have a Union to facilitate all that.


They just did everything so brazen and stupid... if the VP guy takes out a home improvement loan, ( He makes 500k a year, he could get one, no?) And the mob gives him the money in a secret account or crypto or whatever, and he pays off the loan slow, do they even get caught at all?

Even Campos with the house, I thought they stole 780 MILLION?! Am I missing something here? I'm really starting to believe it was 80 million, cut up amongst many guys.

It's something Gravano talked about in his book, the greed and stupidity of the construction racketeers. He said beyond steering the contract his way, he just tried to run a great construction business. He didnt SEE the BUSINESS as a hustle. To me, they should be concerned with the NEXT 80-100 million dollar job, overcharging seems to destroy the competitive advantage. You already cheated to get the contract, if you do the job cheaper than everyone else can, you would get more jobs, right? Why not just use nonunion labor? I thought many did this without getting caught up. Is that what they were doing?

TommyNoto wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:11 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:05 am

Bruno187 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:46 pm In the press release they said the 5 years was what they were subject to..as a max. They go through the whole sentencing report and see what kinda knucklehead you've been and figure out a recommended sentence. I'd say no way they get near the 5. Ciaccia as far as I know, doesn't even have a record, so he might get a slap on the wrist, Georgie the father a bit more "checkered past", so who knows, but even with him, I can't see him getting more than 24-36 months, if that much. Like I said, Andrew they're looking to make an example out of so with his priors, they might go as high as half...120 months, maybe more. I'm just wondering if they're gonna go after his house being that the indictment alleges he used money siphoned off of other jobs to build the house. That'd be a real kick in the ass.

That's why this whole thing just strikes me as extremely dumb. You hustle, to wash your money, to form a company like this one, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE of these Grandfathered in type construction contacts that came from a previous era, SO you can live in your Soprano-esque home with the peace of mind knowing the income is clean. You can claim it on taxes.

But these guys used these contacts to swindle, fuck up the whole operation, and probably gotta give up the homes anyway.....

How much did they bribe the guy for him to risk a 500k a year job? Millions? If not, hes dumb as fuck.
To me, it seems they went full Chrissy, with the fiber optic cable, instead of focusing on the job, and securing the next one, and the NEXT one after that.... now they are on the Feds radar... it's not like they still have the Unions yo use as weapons, right?

I dunno, in a very strange, weird way I was pretty disappointed with this whole bust. These guys were at the forefront of internet fraud before the 2000s even hit. I'd expect them to funding some Bitcoin miners or some other technical shit. Even the way they hid the money was pitiful, Bank of America? No tax havens? You KNOW they didnt hide all that Telephone cramming and porn money in some fuckin jerkoffs Chase account, like WTF?

Made me believe they ( Campos) wernt exactly the masterminds of that internet shit.

There isn’t a major construction project in the area that doesn’t inflate / invent invoices, in all kinds of ways, mob or no mob. Like cheating on your taxes and a steady flow of fast cash

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:24 am

Charlie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:13 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:05 am
I dunno, in a very strange, weird way I was pretty disappointed with this whole bust. These guys were at the forefront of internet fraud before the 2000s even hit. I'd expect them to funding some Bitcoin miners or some other technical shit. Even the way they hid the money was pitiful, Bank of America? No tax havens? You KNOW they didnt hide all that Telephone cramming and porn money in some fuckin jerkoffs Chase account, like WTF?

These guys are no geniuses, they're a crew of street guys above all. Martino was the guy who brought in the millions. Aside from him they don't have the knowledge or connections for the kind of investments and scams you expected them to be involved with.
When the indictment came out I was shocked to read that Ciaccia had been made. Guy is dumb as a box of rocks even by mob standard, not even a tough guy.
The other guy Vinny Fiore caught on tape talking on the phone about crime, schemes, the westside admin...They never learn.
But even more baffling is the fact that Georgie Campos is confirmed as a made guy. I'm not gonna dive head first into a debate about this but he is HISPANIC. Truly incredible.

There's been some debate on here if he is Spanish and it's possible Campos could be italian.

Charlie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:13 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:05 am
I dunno, in a very strange, weird way I was pretty disappointed with this whole bust. These guys were at the forefront of internet fraud before the 2000s even hit. I'd expect them to funding some Bitcoin miners or some other technical shit. Even the way they hid the money was pitiful, Bank of America? No tax havens? You KNOW they didnt hide all that Telephone cramming and porn money in some fuckin jerkoffs Chase account, like WTF?

These guys are no geniuses, they're a crew of street guys above all. Martino was the guy who brought in the millions. Aside from him they don't have the knowledge or connections for the kind of investments and scams you expected them to be involved with.
When the indictment came out I was shocked to read that Ciaccia had been made. Guy is dumb as a box of rocks even by mob standard, not even a tough guy.
The other guy Vinny Fiore caught on tape talking on the phone about crime, schemes, the westside admin...They never learn.
But even more baffling is the fact that Georgie Campos is confirmed as a made guy. I'm not gonna dive head first into a debate about this but he is HISPANIC. Truly incredible.

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:05 am
I dunno, in a very strange, weird way I was pretty disappointed with this whole bust. These guys were at the forefront of internet fraud before the 2000s even hit. I'd expect them to funding some Bitcoin miners or some other technical shit. Even the way they hid the money was pitiful, Bank of America? No tax havens? You KNOW they didnt hide all that Telephone cramming and porn money in some fuckin jerkoffs Chase account, like WTF?

TommyNoto wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:11 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:05 am

Bruno187 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:46 pm In the press release they said the 5 years was what they were subject to..as a max. They go through the whole sentencing report and see what kinda knucklehead you've been and figure out a recommended sentence. I'd say no way they get near the 5. Ciaccia as far as I know, doesn't even have a record, so he might get a slap on the wrist, Georgie the father a bit more "checkered past", so who knows, but even with him, I can't see him getting more than 24-36 months, if that much. Like I said, Andrew they're looking to make an example out of so with his priors, they might go as high as half...120 months, maybe more. I'm just wondering if they're gonna go after his house being that the indictment alleges he used money siphoned off of other jobs to build the house. That'd be a real kick in the ass.

That's why this whole thing just strikes me as extremely dumb. You hustle, to wash your money, to form a company like this one, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE of these Grandfathered in type construction contacts that came from a previous era, SO you can live in your Soprano-esque home with the peace of mind knowing the income is clean. You can claim it on taxes.

But these guys used these contacts to swindle, fuck up the whole operation, and probably gotta give up the homes anyway.....

How much did they bribe the guy for him to risk a 500k a year job? Millions? If not, hes dumb as fuck.
To me, it seems they went full Chrissy, with the fiber optic cable, instead of focusing on the job, and securing the next one, and the NEXT one after that.... now they are on the Feds radar... it's not like they still have the Unions yo use as weapons, right?

I dunno, in a very strange, weird way I was pretty disappointed with this whole bust. These guys were at the forefront of internet fraud before the 2000s even hit. I'd expect them to funding some Bitcoin miners or some other technical shit. Even the way they hid the money was pitiful, Bank of America? No tax havens? You KNOW they didnt hide all that Telephone cramming and porn money in some fuckin jerkoffs Chase account, like WTF?

Made me believe they ( Campos) wernt exactly the masterminds of that internet shit.

There isn’t a major construction project in the area that doesn’t inflate / invent invoices, in all kinds of ways, mob or no mob. Like cheating on your taxes and a steady flow of fast cash

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:05 am

Bruno187 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:46 pm In the press release they said the 5 years was what they were subject to..as a max. They go through the whole sentencing report and see what kinda knucklehead you've been and figure out a recommended sentence. I'd say no way they get near the 5. Ciaccia as far as I know, doesn't even have a record, so he might get a slap on the wrist, Georgie the father a bit more "checkered past", so who knows, but even with him, I can't see him getting more than 24-36 months, if that much. Like I said, Andrew they're looking to make an example out of so with his priors, they might go as high as half...120 months, maybe more. I'm just wondering if they're gonna go after his house being that the indictment alleges he used money siphoned off of other jobs to build the house. That'd be a real kick in the ass.

That's why this whole thing just strikes me as extremely dumb. You hustle, to wash your money, to form a company like this one, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE of these Grandfathered in type construction contacts that came from a previous era, SO you can live in your Soprano-esque home with the peace of mind knowing the income is clean. You can claim it on taxes.

But these guys used these contacts to swindle, fuck up the whole operation, and probably gotta give up the homes anyway.....

How much did they bribe the guy for him to risk a 500k a year job? Millions? If not, hes dumb as fuck.
To me, it seems they went full Chrissy, with the fiber optic cable, instead of focusing on the job, and securing the next one, and the NEXT one after that.... now they are on the Feds radar... it's not like they still have the Unions yo use as weapons, right?

I dunno, in a very strange, weird way I was pretty disappointed with this whole bust. These guys were at the forefront of internet fraud before the 2000s even hit. I'd expect them to funding some Bitcoin miners or some other technical shit. Even the way they hid the money was pitiful, Bank of America? No tax havens? You KNOW they didnt hide all that Telephone cramming and porn money in some fuckin jerkoffs Chase account, like WTF?

Made me believe they ( Campos) wernt exactly the masterminds of that internet shit.

Bruno187 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:46 pm In the press release they said the 5 years was what they were subject to..as a max. They go through the whole sentencing report and see what kinda knucklehead you've been and figure out a recommended sentence. I'd say no way they get near the 5. Ciaccia as far as I know, doesn't even have a record, so he might get a slap on the wrist, Georgie the father a bit more "checkered past", so who knows, but even with him, I can't see him getting more than 24-36 months, if that much. Like I said, Andrew they're looking to make an example out of so with his priors, they might go as high as half...120 months, maybe more. I'm just wondering if they're gonna go after his house being that the indictment alleges he used money siphoned off of other jobs to build the house. That'd be a real kick in the ass.

JohnnyS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:48 pm

No details about the plea deals were disclosed during the proceeding. But sources say the six defendants charged with racketeering, Campos, Martino, mobster Vincent Fiore, and associates Benito (Benny) DiZenzo, Mark (Chippy) Kocaj, and Frank (Bones) Tarul are likely to get plea deals in the three to five year range, based on a variety of factors that go into the mix.

Sources say the plea deal for John (Johnny Si) Simonlacaj, the fired $500,000 a year Managing Director of Development of HFZ Capital Group charged with taking bribes from CWC Contracting Corp, a Campos-owned firm that enabled the gangsters to pull off the fraud, will likely shake out in the three to four year range.

The sources say the guideline sentence numbers for Carlos Cobos, who provided workers for CWC and was involved in wire fraud and tax fraud involving cash payments to workers, according to court filings, will likely be in the two to three year range.

And the numbers for mobsters George Campos, Andrew's father, and James Ciaccia, and for associate Mark (Perkins) Tarul, and Renato (Ronny) Barca, who are charged with so-called OSHA violations — getting cards from the U.S. Department of Labor by falsely stating they had completed Occupational Safety and Health Administration training when they hadn't, will likely be from zero to 6 months.

Gang Land also expects there will be restitution and forfeiture provisions for several defendants, including Campos, Fiore, and Simonlacaj, whose homes are all cited as the fruits of their crimes, as well as Martino, who is charged with hiding millions of dollars of income and assets through bank fraud.

No details about the plea deals were disclosed during the proceeding. But sources say the six defendants charged with racketeering, Campos, Martino, mobster Vincent Fiore, and associates Benito (Benny) DiZenzo, Mark (Chippy) Kocaj, and Frank (Bones) Tarul are likely to get plea deals in the three to five year range, based on a variety of factors that go into the mix.

Sources say the plea deal for John (Johnny Si) Simonlacaj, the fired $500,000 a year Managing Director of Development of HFZ Capital Group charged with taking bribes from CWC Contracting Corp, a Campos-owned firm that enabled the gangsters to pull off the fraud, will likely shake out in the three to four year range.

The sources say the guideline sentence numbers for Carlos Cobos, who provided workers for CWC and was involved in wire fraud and tax fraud involving cash payments to workers, according to court filings, will likely be in the two to three year range.

And the numbers for mobsters George Campos, Andrew's father, and James Ciaccia, and for associate Mark (Perkins) Tarul, and Renato (Ronny) Barca, who are charged with so-called OSHA violations — getting cards from the U.S. Department of Labor by falsely stating they had completed Occupational Safety and Health Administration training when they hadn't, will likely be from zero to 6 months.

Gang Land also expects there will be restitution and forfeiture provisions for several defendants, including Campos, Fiore, and Simonlacaj, whose homes are all cited as the fruits of their crimes, as well as Martino, who is charged with hiding millions of dollars of income and assets through bank fraud.

Bruno187 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:21 am Campos and Fiore are looking at 20 years for the Rico conspiracy. They won't get anywhere near it, but that's the max. The rest of the crew have smaller max sentences. Ciaccia and George Campos looking at 5 years apiece. Not being an apologist, but 5 years for fraudulently obtaining OSHA cards seems a bit much. They have a hard on for Andrew so I bet they hit him harder than anybody else would've been. As far as rackets go, this was not particularly ingenious or even lucrative it seems, but who's to say. They did the right thing in taking a plea though.