Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

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Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by johnny_scootch » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:12 pm

DannyTrio wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:59 pm All due respect to the thread regarding Barry!..I’m from Coney Island and been around Barry my whole life..I’m just going to say this about my friend he ain’t no Capo!.. This John in my opinion is delusional!..I don’t want to go to much into this because I don’t know who is on this forum!..
You hear what Sammy said about Barry?

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by DannyTrio » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:59 pm

All due respect to the thread regarding Barry!..I’m from Coney Island and been around Barry my whole life..I’m just going to say this about my friend he ain’t no Capo!.. This John in my opinion is delusional!..I don’t want to go to much into this because I don’t know who is on this forum!..

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by johnny_scootch » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:46 pm

dave wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:44 pm
newera_212 wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:23 pm I wanted to start a separate thread on Barry Nichols or Nickles or whatever it is. First I'm hearing that he's a Capo but if Pannisi was introduced to him as such, and introduced to him BECAUSE he was a Capo, well...there it is.

Always thought he was a long, long time high powered Genovese associate. He was mentioned in a few books as being as such. Supposedly close with Gigante. Supposedly worked closely with Gravano on construction and was supposedly the innovator of using marginalized community activist groups to shake down contractors and developers (as seen with Tony and the Blacks in early Season 2 of The Sopranos). He must be very very old by now. Or was just young 20+ years ago when he was mentioned in books like Born to Steal and a few more
Gravano tells a story involving Barry Nichilo in his latest video:

https://youtu.be/jcGvIb6z3F0


He speaks highly of Barry Nichilo and confirms he was with the Genovese family back when Gravano was still active I know there was speculation he might have been with another family as an associate. A good story.

Thank you Dave for posting

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by dave » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:44 pm

newera_212 wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:23 pm I wanted to start a separate thread on Barry Nichols or Nickles or whatever it is. First I'm hearing that he's a Capo but if Pannisi was introduced to him as such, and introduced to him BECAUSE he was a Capo, well...there it is.

Always thought he was a long, long time high powered Genovese associate. He was mentioned in a few books as being as such. Supposedly close with Gigante. Supposedly worked closely with Gravano on construction and was supposedly the innovator of using marginalized community activist groups to shake down contractors and developers (as seen with Tony and the Blacks in early Season 2 of The Sopranos). He must be very very old by now. Or was just young 20+ years ago when he was mentioned in books like Born to Steal and a few more
Gravano tells a story involving Barry Nichilo in his latest video:

https://youtu.be/jcGvIb6z3F0

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by TommyNoto » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:38 am

Great summary info by the way

Always an enjoyable read

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by TommyNoto » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:37 am

B. wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:43 pm Without specific details, I am skeptical of terms like "Rizzuto Crime Family" = "Cotroni Crime Family" = "East Coast LCN Enterprise"

Some of these phrases are for convenience.
I Agree, It helps LE with their strategy and winning is what it’s all about.

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by NothingNew44 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:19 am

In the latest episode (8) Pennisi gives the FBI credit for their accuracy and knowledge on Family Charts. It’s at the 32:00 mark. He implies he’ll do an episode solely on the subject.

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by B. » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:43 pm

Without specific details, I am skeptical of terms like "Rizzuto Crime Family" = "Cotroni Crime Family" = "East Coast LCN Enterprise"

Some of these phrases are for convenience.

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by B. » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:38 pm

The rules of the mafia are the same today as they were 50 years ago.

You are made into a certain family and belong to that family until you arrange a transfer or receive approval/recognition from other mafia leaders to start a formal mafia family. The Montreal group interacts not just locally, but with an international (US and Sicily) array of made members, so the question is how those other members/groups perceive Montreal's membership.

If the argument is that the entire Montreal group claims to be their own "family", ala the Gallos, that's a different story. I'm looking for evidence that they are a recognized mafia family who broke off from the Bonanno family.

Scoppa's organizational info seems murky, but if it's true that Sollecito began claiming Montreal was its own family in 2015, that is a substantial piece of info. We need more info on it.

I don't know why the Justice Dept. refers to them that way, but they've consistently made organizational distinctions between members that operate in Canada vs. the US. Authorities have made similarly vague/misleading references to mafia figures in Hamilton. Affiliation in Canada seems to be one of the thinnest areas of LE intelligence and it took a Bonanno informant in Hamilton to show us that the Violi-Luppino group are made members in Buffalo.

I'd love it if we found out the Montreal group officially broke off. It would settle the discussion once and for all and it'd be fascinating to hear how this was handled politically. As of right now, we don't have public info confirming it while we do have examples of the Montreal crew being formally affiliated with the Bonannos until ~2006, with the 2009-2011 situation also pointing to some Montreal figures siding with a Bonanno leader.

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by Wiseguy » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:20 pm

B. wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:49 pm
Jezza9009 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:45 pm Also a quick question if you do not mind; when you mention the Bonnano's and their number of made men, would you include the Canadian faction into those numbers (are they still a ''crew'' even or are they independent at this point? I know there the FBI says they still are) or basically only the NYC faction? thanks!
No evidence that Montreal broke away in 1999 aside from Vitale perceiving bad feelings from Vito Rizzuto.

The most substantial claim is Scoppa saying that Sollecito began claiming they had their own family in 2015, but we still need more info. Def an interesting piece of news if that's true, as it means they finally achieved recognition/independence.

As for Bonanno-Montreal contact, here is what we have:

Post-1999 - Dom Cicale and PJ Pisciotti both state Vincent Basciano continued to arrange drug deals with Montreal after Sciascia's death.

2001 - Bonanno leaders visit Montreal and attend a formal dinner with the entire Montreal membership. Vito Rizzuto expresses hurt over Sciascia's murder and won't accept promotion, instead suggesting his father as the new capodecina.

2004 - Frank Cotroni dies and soon after his name shows up as a deceased member being replaced on a proposed member list. This implies contact with Montreal and shows that the Bonanno family continued to recognize Montreal members as their own.

2005-2006 - Dom Cicale was told by Baldo Amato (close friend of Montreal) that Sal Montagna was serving as a liaison to Montreal and the Bonanno leadership demanded more Christmas tribute, which Rizzuto reluctantly agreed to.

2009-2011 - Bonanno acting boss Sal Montagna goes to Montreal, receives support from some of the local Bonanno members/associates, and helps start the most violent mafia war in decades before being killed himself. Allegedly Montagna told Nick Rizzuto to step down prior to Rizzuto's murder, suggesting Rizzuto may have been the official capodecina ala Vitale's earlier conversation with Vito Rizzuto.

2011 - Vincent Asaro is recorded by Gary Valenti saying that Sal Montagna has been killed in Canada and describes him as a "boss" in NYC. Asaro then attends a members-only meeting with acting captain Jack Bonventre to discuss the murder.

2016 - Buffalo underboss Domenico Violi offers to introduce Hamilton-based Bonanno member Morena to three Montreal figures: Arcadi, Cotroni Jr., and Mucci.

As for the "Crime Family" designation:

- There are FBI reports from the 1960s and 1970s that refer repeatedly to the "Cotroni Crime Family". The Cotroni crew was described in a 1960s report as being almost completely autonomous except with regards to formal Bonanno affiliation. The FBI received information that the Cotroni crew handled inductions on their own.

- The Cotroni group attempted to break off from the Bonanno family around the time Paul Sciacca became official boss, which is when Joe Bonanno was finally shut out from re-gaining control. The Cotroni crew had been Bonanno loyalists up until the end and are believed to have continued their friendship with him after he was deposed and through the 1970s.

- An FBI report from the late-1960s details how two emissaries from the Montreal crew visited Joe Zicarelli in NJ (who was helping run the family) and attempted to break off from the Bonanno family, but Zicarelli "convinced" them to stay with the Bonannos. We don't know the details of this conversation or who reported it, but Zicarelli may not have "asked" so much as "told" them where they belong.

- When Mickey Zaffarano visited Paolo Violi in the 1970s, he told them the Bonanno family was unhappy with Montreal's independence and wanted to arrange regularly scheduled check-in meetings between the Bonanno family and Cotroni crew.

The relationship with Montreal has always been distant and strained, at least after Joe Bonanno was deposed.

A more accurate way of describing Montreal post-Sciascia, or even before, would be "ambivalent". There were ~20 members in Canada and ~140 members in NYC, no doubt some members of each group had different feelings and relationships that make it difficult to paint the situation with a broad brush.

The FBI's intel on Canada is historically very weak and there have been cooperation issues with the RCMP, whose mafia investigation methods are different from the FBI.

You're comparing FBI intel over 50 years ago to today?

Also, why does the Justice Department refer to the "Rizzuto and Bonanno crime families" if they're one and the same?

Taloni was charged with narcotics and money laundering offenses as a part of an indictment in which ten members of a Montreal-based drug distribution organization affiliated with the Rizutto and Bonanno crime families, the Hells Angels, and the Sinaloa Cartel have been charged with trafficking over $1 billion worth of marijuana, cocaine, and ecstasy into the United States between 1998 and 2012.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/al ... rafficking


Continued contact and business deals don't necessarily equate to formal affiliation.

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by B. » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:49 pm

Jezza9009 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:45 pm Also a quick question if you do not mind; when you mention the Bonnano's and their number of made men, would you include the Canadian faction into those numbers (are they still a ''crew'' even or are they independent at this point? I know there the FBI says they still are) or basically only the NYC faction? thanks!
No evidence that Montreal broke away in 1999 aside from Vitale perceiving bad feelings from Vito Rizzuto.

The most substantial claim is Scoppa saying that Sollecito began claiming they had their own family in 2015, but we still need more info. Def an interesting piece of news if that's true, as it means they finally achieved recognition/independence.

As for Bonanno-Montreal contact, here is what we have:

Post-1999 - Dom Cicale and PJ Pisciotti both state Vincent Basciano continued to arrange drug deals with Montreal after Sciascia's death.

2001 - Bonanno leaders visit Montreal and attend a formal dinner with the entire Montreal membership. Vito Rizzuto expresses hurt over Sciascia's murder and won't accept promotion, instead suggesting his father as the new capodecina.

2004 - Frank Cotroni dies and soon after his name shows up as a deceased member being replaced on a proposed member list. This implies contact with Montreal and shows that the Bonanno family continued to recognize Montreal members as their own.

2005-2006 - Dom Cicale was told by Baldo Amato (close friend of Montreal) that Sal Montagna was serving as a liaison to Montreal and the Bonanno leadership demanded more Christmas tribute, which Rizzuto reluctantly agreed to.

2009-2011 - Bonanno acting boss Sal Montagna goes to Montreal, receives support from some of the local Bonanno members/associates, and helps start the most violent mafia war in decades before being killed himself. Allegedly Montagna told Nick Rizzuto to step down prior to Rizzuto's murder, suggesting Rizzuto may have been the official capodecina ala Vitale's earlier conversation with Vito Rizzuto.

2011 - Vincent Asaro is recorded by Gary Valenti saying that Sal Montagna has been killed in Canada and describes him as a "boss" in NYC. Asaro then attends a members-only meeting with acting captain Jack Bonventre to discuss the murder.

2016 - Buffalo underboss Domenico Violi offers to introduce Hamilton-based Bonanno member Morena to three Montreal figures: Arcadi, Cotroni Jr., and Mucci.

As for the "Crime Family" designation:

- There are FBI reports from the 1960s and 1970s that refer repeatedly to the "Cotroni Crime Family". The Cotroni crew was described in a 1960s report as being almost completely autonomous except with regards to formal Bonanno affiliation. The FBI received information that the Cotroni crew handled inductions on their own.

- The Cotroni group attempted to break off from the Bonanno family around the time Paul Sciacca became official boss, which is when Joe Bonanno was finally shut out from re-gaining control. The Cotroni crew had been Bonanno loyalists up until the end and are believed to have continued their friendship with him after he was deposed and through the 1970s.

- An FBI report from the late-1960s details how two emissaries from the Montreal crew visited Joe Zicarelli in NJ (who was helping run the family) and attempted to break off from the Bonanno family, but Zicarelli "convinced" them to stay with the Bonannos. We don't know the details of this conversation or who reported it, but Zicarelli may not have "asked" so much as "told" them where they belong.

- When Mickey Zaffarano visited Paolo Violi in the 1970s, he told them the Bonanno family was unhappy with Montreal's independence and wanted to arrange regularly scheduled check-in meetings between the Bonanno family and Cotroni crew.

The relationship with Montreal has always been distant and strained, at least after Joe Bonanno was deposed.

A more accurate way of describing Montreal post-Sciascia, or even before, would be "ambivalent". There were ~20 members in Canada and ~140 members in NYC, no doubt some members of each group had different feelings and relationships that make it difficult to paint the situation with a broad brush.

The FBI's intel on Canada is historically very weak and there have been cooperation issues with the RCMP, whose mafia investigation methods are different from the FBI.

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by Wiseguy » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:36 pm

Jezza9009 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:45 pm Also a quick question if you do not mind; when you mention the Bonnano's and their number of made men, would you include the Canadian faction into those numbers (are they still a ''crew'' even or are they independent at this point? I know there the FBI says they still are) or basically only the NYC faction? thanks!
No, they broke away after Massino had Sciascia killed in 1999. And it appears the feds look at them as two separate organizations. Both the Justice Department and DEA have had press releases in recent years referring to the "Rizzuto Organized Crime Family," which they wouldn't need to do if they were still a faction of the Bonanno family.
Whats surprising to me is how the Bonnano's have more made men than the Luchesses? surely after Massino etc... that family had a rougher time the last 20-30 years?
You're preaching to the choir on that one, as far as I'm concerned. But I'm definitely in the minority (if not totally alone) when it comes to be skeptical about the Bonannos currently having 140 members or so. I think they're larger than the Luccheses and Colombos but only slightly so. But people almost talk like there's 3 large families and 2 small ones in New York.

And Pennisi is simply "talking out of school," to use his phrase, when saying the Luccheses have 200 members. He obviously has no idea. Which is fine. It wasn't his job, either as a soldier then or blogger now, to keep track how many made guys the family has.

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by Jezza9009 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:45 pm

Also a quick question if you do not mind; when you mention the Bonnano's and their number of made men, would you include the Canadian faction into those numbers (are they still a ''crew'' even or are they independent at this point? I know there the FBI says they still are) or basically only the NYC faction? thanks!

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by Dave65827 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:38 pm

Jezza9009 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:20 pm
johnny_scootch wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:06 am
CabriniGreen wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:50 am If there arnt any guys to make, where they get 200 buttons? And since when did they get equal in numbers to the Genovese or Gambinos, or even Bonnanos?
Pennisi said the Lucchese family has 200 members!?! Did he really say that? I must have skimmed past that part. Seems odd he would say that because he also says they have 7-8 soldiers per crew and a total of 8 crews. Saying both of those things don't jive.

Jezza9009 wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 am Whats surprising to me is how the Bonnano's have more made men than the Luchesses? surely after Massino etc... that family had a rougher time the last 20-30 years?
The Bonanno's have always had more slots then the Lucchese family. The Bonannos would have to shrink by almost a third to be equal to a full power Lucchese family.
I asked him on Instagram if he had a rough estimate, he said he wasn't sure but that it might be 200. So yeah, no definite answer... but was still surprised by that number

''I really don’t know the number possibly over 200 guys. Happy Holidays'' that was his exact quote.

I think it was more of a “I don’t know it could be over 200 guys” type situation where he’s like explaining he doesn’t know than a definite answer

Re: Some Interesting Info about John Pennisi

by Jezza9009 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:20 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:06 am
CabriniGreen wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:50 am If there arnt any guys to make, where they get 200 buttons? And since when did they get equal in numbers to the Genovese or Gambinos, or even Bonnanos?
Pennisi said the Lucchese family has 200 members!?! Did he really say that? I must have skimmed past that part. Seems odd he would say that because he also says they have 7-8 soldiers per crew and a total of 8 crews. Saying both of those things don't jive.

Jezza9009 wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 am Whats surprising to me is how the Bonnano's have more made men than the Luchesses? surely after Massino etc... that family had a rougher time the last 20-30 years?
The Bonanno's have always had more slots then the Lucchese family. The Bonannos would have to shrink by almost a third to be equal to a full power Lucchese family.
I asked him on Instagram if he had a rough estimate, he said he wasn't sure but that it might be 200. So yeah, no definite answer... but was still surprised by that number

''I really don’t know the number possibly over 200 guys. Happy Holidays'' that was his exact quote.

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