by CabriniGreen » Sat May 15, 2021 4:01 am
I'll throw some thoughts out there for the sake of discussion........
wrote:
- In the transcript it becomes clear that Bruno didn't understand Perella's exact complaint. Perella tries to point out to Bruno that his complaint involved a previous mafia rule against introducing Sicilian members to Americans. It seems Perella heard the same rule as Valachi (allegedly sent via Luciano) barring formal introductions between Sicilians and Americans. Bruno never addresses this exact complaint, not seeming to understand or acknowledge it.
In my opinion, Bruno didnt understand the complaint because it isnt really a rule, so much as a political RULING.
First off, it's ironic Luciano, who was banished to Italy, would forbid Americans from interacting with Sicilians, he DID BUSINESS with Sicilian bosses, right? Did they pull a, " Hey, you dont count over here?", or no? Did the Italians exclude any of the deportees? I dont think they did that to him, or any of the other guys, even if they wernt Sicilian like say, Joe Adonis. Genovese? I dunno, I could be wrong. Although, there IS that incident where someone slapped him.
Its political and situational. It has to do with vested interest. There really isnt a set rule, or rather, there wasnt. How was Luciano going to STOP guys like Profaci and Bonnano from Sicilian interactions? Also, was this rule before or after he needed Sicilian help for the Americans, the military, I mean.
It's funny to me. In the 60s, the Sicilians started coming over. Some bosses were ok with it, like Castellano, the Bonnanos, Bruno. Notice these borgatas at that time were somewhat, kinda Genovese rivals. Now I know Chin was close to Paul, but the moves on Bruno, not recognizing Sicilian members, the awkward drug ban, all if this benefits the Genovese, not the Gambinos or Bonnanos. I never got why Paul allowed this, but Lefty gave a clue in the Brasco book. He said Tieri had the power, then got knocked down by the Commission, and then Paul and Dellacroce had it. But I think their power was somewhat fractured, I'm not sure if Neil and Paul were always in lockstep.
wrote:
- Bruno seems to have no idea what Perella is talking about and continues to argue from the POV that he had been previously introduced to Sinatra therefore had the right to introduce him. Bruno doesn't seem to understand Perella is referring to something along the lines of Luciano's rule barring Sicilian/American introductions. Suggests the earlier Philly boss(es) honored Luciano's rule (assuming it originated with Luciano), while Bruno either wasn't informed of it when he was made in the 1950s or he ignored it. We have numerous evidence that Bruno recognized Sicilian mafia members: John Stanfa is believed to have been a Sicilian transfer; Bruno introduced Sicilian mafia member Rosario Gambino to Nicky Scarfo as "amico nos"; Bruno was formally introduced to mafia leaders all over Sicily during a 1960s trip.
I'm reminded of a post you made, about Tieri holding a sitdown, a SITDOWN, WITH a Sicilian mafia member present, and representing himself. So Tieri was good with it, but then the Chins becomes boss, and hes against it? Political, situational.
Imagine a Sicilian gangster at that time. You got Inzerillos in Brooklyn, Zips on Knickerbocker, Zips in Philly. You KNOW THIS. But a soldier in Canada, Violi says, no, you arnt welcome, it's a RULE....? Yet bosses in Sicily are PARTNERS with the Americans. To make it worse, hes Calabrian, lol.....
wrote:
Just shows that even in the same family there were different attitudes/understandings of the relationship between Sicilian and American members. Perella and Bruno were both part of the Sicilian faction, too.
This is the same conversation where Bruno talks about how even old time members must check in with their captains once a month or be shelved. He used the example of Joe Maggio as an elderly member who was retired at the shore. Bruno said guys like this didn't care if they were shelved because they were old and retired, but said if their younger relatives have a problem they could need the mafia to help them, so that should be incentive for the old timers to maintain contact with the capodecina.
The origin of Scarfos touching base philosophy?
Three Fingers Coppola....... did he transfer back and forth?
I'll throw some thoughts out there for the sake of discussion........
[quote=]
- In the transcript it becomes clear that Bruno didn't understand Perella's exact complaint. Perella tries to point out to Bruno that his complaint involved a previous mafia rule against introducing Sicilian members to Americans. It seems Perella heard the same rule as Valachi (allegedly sent via Luciano) barring formal introductions between Sicilians and Americans. Bruno never addresses this exact complaint, not seeming to understand or acknowledge it.[/quote]
In my opinion, Bruno didnt understand the complaint because it isnt really a rule, so much as a political RULING.
First off, it's ironic Luciano, who was banished to Italy, would forbid Americans from interacting with Sicilians, he DID BUSINESS with Sicilian bosses, right? Did they pull a, " Hey, you dont count over here?", or no? Did the Italians exclude any of the deportees? I dont think they did that to him, or any of the other guys, even if they wernt Sicilian like say, Joe Adonis. Genovese? I dunno, I could be wrong. Although, there IS that incident where someone slapped him.
Its political and situational. It has to do with vested interest. There really isnt a set rule, or rather, there wasnt. How was Luciano going to STOP guys like Profaci and Bonnano from Sicilian interactions? Also, was this rule before or after he needed Sicilian help for the Americans, the military, I mean.
It's funny to me. In the 60s, the Sicilians started coming over. Some bosses were ok with it, like Castellano, the Bonnanos, Bruno. Notice these borgatas at that time were somewhat, kinda Genovese rivals. Now I know Chin was close to Paul, but the moves on Bruno, not recognizing Sicilian members, the awkward drug ban, all if this benefits the Genovese, not the Gambinos or Bonnanos. I never got why Paul allowed this, but Lefty gave a clue in the Brasco book. He said Tieri had the power, then got knocked down by the Commission, and then Paul and Dellacroce had it. But I think their power was somewhat fractured, I'm not sure if Neil and Paul were always in lockstep.
[quote=]
- Bruno seems to have no idea what Perella is talking about and continues to argue from the POV that he had been previously introduced to Sinatra therefore had the right to introduce him. Bruno doesn't seem to understand Perella is referring to something along the lines of Luciano's rule barring Sicilian/American introductions. Suggests the earlier Philly boss(es) honored Luciano's rule (assuming it originated with Luciano), while Bruno either wasn't informed of it when he was made in the 1950s or he ignored it. We have numerous evidence that Bruno recognized Sicilian mafia members: John Stanfa is believed to have been a Sicilian transfer; Bruno introduced Sicilian mafia member Rosario Gambino to Nicky Scarfo as "amico nos"; Bruno was formally introduced to mafia leaders all over Sicily during a 1960s trip.[/quote]
I'm reminded of a post you made, about Tieri holding a sitdown, a SITDOWN, WITH a Sicilian mafia member present, and representing himself. So Tieri was good with it, but then the Chins becomes boss, and hes against it? Political, situational.
Imagine a Sicilian gangster at that time. You got Inzerillos in Brooklyn, Zips on Knickerbocker, Zips in Philly. You KNOW THIS. But a soldier in Canada, Violi says, no, you arnt welcome, it's a RULE....? Yet bosses in Sicily are PARTNERS with the Americans. To make it worse, hes Calabrian, lol.....
[quote=]
Just shows that even in the same family there were different attitudes/understandings of the relationship between Sicilian and American members. Perella and Bruno were both part of the Sicilian faction, too.
This is the same conversation where Bruno talks about how even old time members must check in with their captains once a month or be shelved. He used the example of Joe Maggio as an elderly member who was retired at the shore. Bruno said guys like this didn't care if they were shelved because they were old and retired, but said if their younger relatives have a problem they could need the mafia to help them, so that should be incentive for the old timers to maintain contact with the capodecina.[/quote]
The origin of Scarfos touching base philosophy?
Three Fingers Coppola....... did he transfer back and forth?