THE BLACK HAND FORUM

motorfab wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:14 am

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:32 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:17 pm The legal system of all of Western Europe is a joke.

Absolutely correct. Look at the weak sentence Anders Breivik received for murdering 77 people in Norway - 21 years! That sentence should be a crime.

Norway has a somewhat special penal system because since 1971 the life sentence has been repealed. 21 years is therefore the maximum, but the sentence can be extended indefinitely if the justice considers that the prisoner still represents a danger for society.

Here are the other countries that do not practice the life sentence (in parenthesis the maximum sentence): Bolivia (30), Bosnia-Herzegovina (20), Brazil (30), Colombia (60), Croatia (40), Spain (no limits), Equater (34.5), Macao (30), Montenegro (20), Mexico (20), Nicaragua (30), Portugal (20 or 25 depending on the severity), Salvador (50), Suriname (since the abolition of the death penalty from 30 to 100), Ukraine (25), Uruguay (30), Venezuela (30)

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:32 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:17 pm The legal system of all of Western Europe is a joke.

Absolutely correct. Look at the weak sentence Anders Breivik received for murdering 77 people in Norway - 21 years! That sentence should be a crime.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:17 pm The legal system of all of Western Europe is a joke.

After the fall of the Berlin Wall, the former East opened up - and the Italian Mafia moved in. In the decades since, they have built up a criminal network in the former East Germany. This investigative documentary traces their origins back 30 years.
To uncover the Mafia’s efforts to infiltrate entire East German cities and regions, the filmmakers traveled to the infamous 'Ndrangheta clan's base in Calabria, southern Italy. There, they met police officers and prosecutors, and researched economic databases and land registry offices. They also analyzed thousands of pages of German and Italian investigation documents. In the process, they uncovered a major, still unknown anti-Mafia case against the 'Ndrangheta in East Germany. Almost 20 years ago, investigators eavesdropped on a powerful 'Ndrangheta cell in the East. The secret surveillance provided key insights into the Mafia organization in the German states of Thuringia and Saxony. The film describes how difficult it is to investigate the 'Ndrangheta and other Italian Mafia groups. Despite years of cooperation between Italy and Germany, organized crime structures are still active in East Germany today. The criminals have lost none of their power to threaten democracy and social cohesion.

scagghiuni wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:40 am

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:20 pm

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:18 am Same, and we have a mob that is developing strongly and is (in my opinion) becoming as big as the Italians. Not even to mention the suburban thugs who have been dealing tons of drugs with impunity for years. Guys assault cops, burn cars or police stations, and cops can't even defend themselves.

Which mob is this?

The Corsicans who for several years have been doing whatever they want on their island, have international connections, infiltrate the political environment etc ... I cannot prove it because it is a personal opinion, but yes I think that they are getting very big.

yes, i agree that corsican mob is very strong, in italy corsican mobsters would be charged with mafia-type association crime for sure and put under 41-bis... instead the street gangs based in the banlieus would be considered ordinary crime groups

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:20 pm

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:18 am Same, and we have a mob that is developing strongly and is (in my opinion) becoming as big as the Italians. Not even to mention the suburban thugs who have been dealing tons of drugs with impunity for years. Guys assault cops, burn cars or police stations, and cops can't even defend themselves.

Which mob is this?

The Corsicans who for several years have been doing whatever they want on their island, have international connections, infiltrate the political environment etc ... I cannot prove it because it is a personal opinion, but yes I think that they are getting very big.

maatsetungi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:00 am

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:37 am

Clearly. I take the example of my country where a life sentence is never real: release in 18 years for murder, 22 years for child murder. If the prisoner stays quiet during his sentence she is reduced and the guys can eventually get out after 15 years. It's aberrant. The worst is Portugal where they don't even have life sentences.

On the other hand, I disagree with maatsetungi, prisons (in France in anyway) are anything but comfortable: they are in advanced states of unsanitary conditions and above all are overcrowded. I'm not saying they should be housed in a Hilton hotel but at least building new ones wouldn't be a bad idea. Which poses another problem: inmateses are released too soon or some are not even incarcerated depending on the crime committed ...

Our life sentence for murder is somewhere 12 to 14 years median. Joke.

This is Finnish high security jail
https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/201801202200675319

Finnish "open prison"
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/open ... k/11214953

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:37 am

Clearly. I take the example of my country where a life sentence is never real: release in 18 years for murder, 22 years for child murder. If the prisoner stays quiet during his sentence she is reduced and the guys can eventually get out after 15 years. It's aberrant. The worst is Portugal where they don't even have life sentences.

On the other hand, I disagree with maatsetungi, prisons (in France in anyway) are anything but comfortable: they are in advanced states of unsanitary conditions and above all are overcrowded. I'm not saying they should be housed in a Hilton hotel but at least building new ones wouldn't be a bad idea. Which poses another problem: inmateses are released too soon or some are not even incarcerated depending on the crime committed ...

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:20 pm

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:18 am Same, and we have a mob that is developing strongly and is (in my opinion) becoming as big as the Italians. Not even to mention the suburban thugs who have been dealing tons of drugs with impunity for years. Guys assault cops, burn cars or police stations, and cops can't even defend themselves.

Which mob is this?

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:18 am Same, and we have a mob that is developing strongly and is (in my opinion) becoming as big as the Italians. Not even to mention the suburban thugs who have been dealing tons of drugs with impunity for years. Guys assault cops, burn cars or police stations, and cops can't even defend themselves.

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:04 am Imagine what they think about the Canadian "justice" system lol. Remember that when Caruana got busted for a massive cocaine distribution and money laundering network 20 years ago he only had to serve 3 years(!) out of his 18 year sentence. Only reason he wasn't released is because he was held in custody while he fought his extradition hearing.

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:09 am

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:20 am

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:04 am Imagine what they think about the Canadian "justice" system lol. Remember that when Caruana got busted for a massive cocaine distribution and money laundering network 20 years ago he only had to serve 3 years(!) out of his 18 year sentence. Only reason he wasn't released is because he was held in custody while he fought his extradition hearing.

The Caruana brothers were not subsequently extradited to Italy ? Pasquale Cuntrera I don't know (is he still alive?), but Gaspare & Paolo Cuntrera are free now

I had seen a documentary about the mafia in Canada where an Italian journalist was interviewed and he was surprised that Canada did not have an anti-mafia law. This is probably why there is strong mafia activity there. But it is true that apart from Italy (which took time to set up) and the USA with RICO, I do not see other countries with strong organized crime laws

Alfonso was definitely extradited around 2007 I believe to serve that 20 year bid he was already sentenced to in absentia. I'm not sure if Pasquale and Gerlando had charges in Italy at the time so I don't know where they are exactly now, I know they got convicted in the same Project Omerta case with Alfonso. But my point was that if Caruana didn't have that extradition battle to fight and wasn't held in custody during that, he would have been back on the streets by 2001 despite having just been convicted and sentenced to 18 years. Our "justice" system is a sick joke. We do have a gangsterism law which came into place as a response to the Quebec biker war but still, this place is open for business when it comes to organized crime.

motorfab wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:20 am

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:04 am Imagine what they think about the Canadian "justice" system lol. Remember that when Caruana got busted for a massive cocaine distribution and money laundering network 20 years ago he only had to serve 3 years(!) out of his 18 year sentence. Only reason he wasn't released is because he was held in custody while he fought his extradition hearing.

The Caruana brothers were not subsequently extradited to Italy ? Pasquale Cuntrera I don't know (is he still alive?), but Gaspare & Paolo Cuntrera are free now

I had seen a documentary about the mafia in Canada where an Italian journalist was interviewed and he was surprised that Canada did not have an anti-mafia law. This is probably why there is strong mafia activity there. But it is true that apart from Italy (which took time to set up) and the USA with RICO, I do not see other countries with strong organized crime laws