General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by B. » Thu Jun 05, 2025 12:05 pm

PolackTony wrote: Wed Jun 04, 2025 9:55 pm This isn’t to say that Bompensiero was infallible, of course, but this account is our “gold standard” for this question as Bompensiero was a veteran LCN member with deep and extensive contacts with members in Families across the US and as such was an invaluable informant for the FBI (even member sources are not all created equal in terms of the information they are privy to). Apart from reporting, in this case, directly from a meeting with Alderisio, where Alderisio was acting at the behest of Chicago’s Consiglio, Bompensiero was also a longtime close friend of Chicago captain Frank LaPorte and Johnny Roselli, then a soldier reporting to LaPorte. Bompensiero was so close to Chicago that the Feds even mistakenly listed him as a Chicago member on one list. He continued to report Chicago-related intel to the FBI over the subsequent years, also serving as the member sources who confirmed for us that Aiuppa was made official boss around 1975.

Alderisio was then himself indicted and arrested in 1969 in a raid by Federal LE and imprisoned two months later, dying of a heart attack almost exactly two years into his term, in September of 1971. It is evident that he was never boss and probably never held any administrative rank. From the outside looking in, this may not have been clear, however, as Alderisio — by his own account — had been a soldier direct with the boss and then subsequently seems to have been a soldier taking part in the Consiglio; the sort of guy who, if one didn’t have access to the formal mafia organization, would certainly have seemed to have been “a boss”. Not all guys with the rank of soldier are created equal either.
Bompensiero was also planning to transfer to Chicago at one point but Tommy Lucchese stepped in and said Bomp still had a murder contract he needed to fulfill for the LA Family (doesn't specify who the target was) and therefore couldn't transfer. So he was attempting to be part of that exodus to Chicago along with Roselli and Fratianno.

Here is the report if people haven't seen it:

Image
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- From the report it sounds like Alderisio may not have had an actual seat on the consiglio at that time but attends the meetings occasionally. It comes across to me like they were using Alderisio to carry messages/directives from the consiglio to the rest of the Family.

- Alderisio did tell Bomp that he (Alderisio) was in the running to become boss but as you said at this time Bomp's understanding is Alderisio was a soldier and his legal issues were a barrier to becoming boss. Given he'd been a soldier direct w/ Giancana before this, it seems likely Alderisio was still reporting directly to the Family leadership.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by PolackTony » Thu Jun 05, 2025 12:01 pm

Ivan wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:55 am the guy turned out to be a nut with a bunch of troll accounts etc. Was good at convincing people that he was a legit street source though.

But no, PizzaBoy is not someone you should be citing as an authority.
Exactly.

Also, that "PizzaBoy" made claims about being a personal buddy of Ricciardi back on GBB isn't news here on BHF.

As a matter of fact, another one of our fallen comrades, "SolarSolano" (a buonanima) was fond of bringing this up also.
SolarSolano wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:47 pm I was close with a relative of Patsy Ricciardi. He was Alderisio's cousin and raised in the Bronx.

Good story on Patsy:

PizzaBoy on the old GBB Forum - who everyone knew from being fairly knowledgeable about the Bronx NY - knew Patsy Ricciardi well (all of Alderisio's cousins were Bronx/Yonkers) and would travel on Las Vegas junkets with him. PizzaBoy said Patsy would wear a fur coat on the strip - this was 1970 so just after Phil went to jail. Patsy was treated like royalty and was close with a lot of the Genovese guys. After Phil died, I was told Patsy began working for Joe Lombardo whose entire crew hated Phil and made sure to treat his cousin like shit. Patsy was later murdered by the German.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by NorthBuffalo » Thu Jun 05, 2025 12:00 pm

Ivan wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:55 am
Cosmik_Debris wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:51 am
Ivan wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:39 am I actually thought PizzaBoy was legit on GBB about 15 years ago. I only recently learned the Awful Truth about him lol.
Go on...
I don't want to derail but the guy turned out to be a nut with a bunch of troll accounts etc. Was good at convincing people that he was a legit street source though.

Anyway stick to Chicago stuff, don't want to pull a RushStreet myself after pushing to have him clipped. :lol:

But no, PizzaBoy is not someone you should be citing as an authority.
I don't think that's true whatsoever. I think you ask any NYC poster who goes back to Real Deal and they will agree.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by Ivan » Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:55 am

Cosmik_Debris wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:51 am
Ivan wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:39 am I actually thought PizzaBoy was legit on GBB about 15 years ago. I only recently learned the Awful Truth about him lol.
Go on...
I don't want to derail but the guy turned out to be a nut with a bunch of troll accounts etc. Was good at convincing people that he was a legit street source though.

Anyway stick to Chicago stuff, don't want to pull a RushStreet myself after pushing to have him clipped. :lol:

But no, PizzaBoy is not someone you should be citing as an authority.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by Cosmik_Debris » Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:51 am

Ivan wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:39 am I actually thought PizzaBoy was legit on GBB about 15 years ago. I only recently learned the Awful Truth about him lol.
Go on...

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by Ivan » Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:39 am

I actually thought PizzaBoy was legit on GBB about 15 years ago. I only recently learned the Awful Truth about him lol.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by PolackTony » Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:33 am

Again, I don’t doubt that Alderisio had contacts with guys with the Families in NYC. In fact, I presume that he did but I’m not aware of *specific guys* that he was documented as having close relationships with. That such relationships may not have been documented by the FBI by no means implies that they didn’t exist, but if we are going to make specific claims here they should be based on reliable and valid evidence. “NB” posts the claim that Alderisio had “numerous” close ties to “Genovese members”. He may well have, but then “NB” doesn’t cite any such members, but rather cites Patsy Ricciardi, a close relative of Alderisio who — to my knowledge — has never been documented as a “Genovese member”. NB then further adds a non-sequitor regarding claims floated years past on GBB regarding Ricciardi by the charlatan “PizzaBoy”. To be clear, if the only evidence you have is “PizzaBoy said”, then you don’t have any evidence.

After being challenged about a baseless claim, as he so often does, NB then responds with a snide personal attack and a red herring about “academic types” vs “outsiders”, a false dichotomy here and a misdirection. The issue at hand is not one of academics vs outsiders, but one of evidence-based claims vs bad faith arguments and charlatanism.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by InCamelot » Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:05 am

Pizzaboy had stated that Alderisio and Genovese captain Larry Black Centore were close.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by NorthBuffalo » Thu Jun 05, 2025 10:59 am

Ricciardi was known as 'Patsy Rich' - and he was also not the only relative Alderisio brought to Chicago from NYC in the 60s.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by NorthBuffalo » Thu Jun 05, 2025 10:42 am

PolackTony wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 8:07 am
NorthBuffalo wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 6:59 am
PolackTony wrote: Wed Jun 04, 2025 10:38 pm Alderisio was born in the Bronx and had lifelong familial ties to the Bronx/Yonkers, though he moved to Chicago as a kid. I’m sure that he would have had some mob connections in NYC, though no specific, close ties come to mind ATM (if I’m forgetting something here, hopefully someone will remind me). He was, however, known for having particularly close ties to the Milwaukee outfit, hence his nickname, “Milwaukee Phil”.

And I agree about the impulse to “fill things in”. I much prefer to simply be clear about the limits of evidence around a given question, and to be up front about what lays beyond the veil of ignorance. Some (many!) of these problems and gaps in our understanding will simply never be resolved, barring some hitherto unknown set of valid/reliable evidence coming to light.
Alderisio kept close connections to the Bronx and numerous members of the Genovese family - Patsy Ricciardi for example was from the Bronx too and took over a few of Alderisio's rackets before being killed by Frank Schweis a decade after Phil passed. The older posters may remember the Bronx poster PizzaBoy who knew Patsy in his youth and stayed in touch with him even after he was in Chicago.

That was something I don't think you can really find in FBI charts - those incredibly deep connections.
Which of these “numerous” Genovese members did Alderisio have “close connections” to? Patsy Ricciardi, for example, was not a “Genovese member”, though he certainly would have had some connections to mob guys in NYC. Ricciardi was Alderisio’s first cousin, born in the Bronx and raised in Yonkers. Later, he moved to Chicago and was a Chicago associate.

Also, to say that “PizzaBoy” was an unreliable source would be an understatement. While you are correct that there are many things not captured by FBI intel (in fact, only a tiny portion of the events that occur in the world are recorded in such documents), there are also many frauds on the Internet.
There are also many 'academic' types wildy-threatened by people with outside knowledge for some reason. This response was just...bitchy.

PB is a well-known poster for many on the old forums - I would assume Snakes and others know him.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by PolackTony » Thu Jun 05, 2025 8:07 am

NorthBuffalo wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 6:59 am
PolackTony wrote: Wed Jun 04, 2025 10:38 pm Alderisio was born in the Bronx and had lifelong familial ties to the Bronx/Yonkers, though he moved to Chicago as a kid. I’m sure that he would have had some mob connections in NYC, though no specific, close ties come to mind ATM (if I’m forgetting something here, hopefully someone will remind me). He was, however, known for having particularly close ties to the Milwaukee outfit, hence his nickname, “Milwaukee Phil”.

And I agree about the impulse to “fill things in”. I much prefer to simply be clear about the limits of evidence around a given question, and to be up front about what lays beyond the veil of ignorance. Some (many!) of these problems and gaps in our understanding will simply never be resolved, barring some hitherto unknown set of valid/reliable evidence coming to light.
Alderisio kept close connections to the Bronx and numerous members of the Genovese family - Patsy Ricciardi for example was from the Bronx too and took over a few of Alderisio's rackets before being killed by Frank Schweis a decade after Phil passed. The older posters may remember the Bronx poster PizzaBoy who knew Patsy in his youth and stayed in touch with him even after he was in Chicago.

That was something I don't think you can really find in FBI charts - those incredibly deep connections.
Which of these “numerous” Genovese members did Alderisio have “close connections” to? Patsy Ricciardi, for example, was not a “Genovese member”, though he certainly would have had some connections to mob guys in NYC. Ricciardi was Alderisio’s first cousin, born in the Bronx and raised in Yonkers. Later, he moved to Chicago and was a Chicago associate.

Also, to say that “PizzaBoy” was an unreliable source would be an understatement. While you are correct that there are many things not captured by FBI intel (in fact, only a tiny portion of the events that occur in the world are recorded in such documents), there are also many frauds on the Internet.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by Cosmik_Debris » Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:18 am

Alderisio as boss I believe mainly stems from Bill Roemer. I believe in his book(s) he talks about Alderisio taking over around 1967 and remarks how odd he thought it was because he was always a muscle/shakedown/hitman guy with no brains, which was different from previous bosses.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by NorthBuffalo » Thu Jun 05, 2025 6:59 am

PolackTony wrote: Wed Jun 04, 2025 10:38 pm Alderisio was born in the Bronx and had lifelong familial ties to the Bronx/Yonkers, though he moved to Chicago as a kid. I’m sure that he would have had some mob connections in NYC, though no specific, close ties come to mind ATM (if I’m forgetting something here, hopefully someone will remind me). He was, however, known for having particularly close ties to the Milwaukee outfit, hence his nickname, “Milwaukee Phil”.

And I agree about the impulse to “fill things in”. I much prefer to simply be clear about the limits of evidence around a given question, and to be up front about what lays beyond the veil of ignorance. Some (many!) of these problems and gaps in our understanding will simply never be resolved, barring some hitherto unknown set of valid/reliable evidence coming to light.
Alderisio kept close connections to the Bronx and numerous members of the Genovese family - Patsy Ricciardi for example was from the Bronx too and took over a few of Alderisio's rackets before being killed by Frank Schweis a decade after Phil passed. The older posters may remember the Bronx poster PizzaBoy who knew Patsy in his youth and stayed in touch with him even after he was in Chicago.

That was something I don't think you can really find in FBI charts - those incredibly deep connections.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by PolackTony » Wed Jun 04, 2025 10:38 pm

Alderisio was born in the Bronx and had lifelong familial ties to the Bronx/Yonkers, though he moved to Chicago as a kid. I’m sure that he would have had some mob connections in NYC, though no specific, close ties come to mind ATM (if I’m forgetting something here, hopefully someone will remind me). He was, however, known for having particularly close ties to the Milwaukee outfit, hence his nickname, “Milwaukee Phil”.

And I agree about the impulse to “fill things in”. I much prefer to simply be clear about the limits of evidence around a given question, and to be up front about what lays beyond the veil of ignorance. Some (many!) of these problems and gaps in our understanding will simply never be resolved, barring some hitherto unknown set of valid/reliable evidence coming to light.

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

by Camo » Wed Jun 04, 2025 10:11 pm

Great post. Alderisio was close to NY right? I could be mixing him up but i'm almost certain it was him and if so maybe meetings with NY convinced people of his importance so they just slotted him into the position when no one else was available.

That's a major problem people can't accept not knowing things so they just fill in charts with whatever "makes sense" to them. There's so much of that in New York too. It was "common knowledge" for a long time that Philip Mangano was Consig from 31-51 but it was actually Joe Biondo for example.

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