THE BLACK HAND FORUM

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:05 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:58 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:41 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

I personally haven't heard this but then again sometimes I'm limited in what information there is whenever I get back to Rockford. Him meeting at Roma Bakery confuses me because the bakery didn't have anywhere to sit and the standing space was only about eight feet by twenty feet. I do know he frequents the four Italian social clubs very often as well as the Off Track Betting place. In the most recent past he was a fixture at Maria's Restaurant (it closed a few years ago) and he and his associates would count gambling proceeds in the kitchen there after hours.

They had a couple of small tables if i remember correctly and he would sit at one. He would go in the mornings before lunch for coffee and who ever was meeting him would sit in the other chair. I saw him there once while I was picking up some cannolis but he looked to by himself at the time. I didn’t go there regularly to confirm what I heard.

I heard of Marias and was disappointed that I never went. Heard the food was amazing. I heard the same family opened up another restaurant in Loves Park I think.

Maria's was awesome and was owned by the Cason family which the name was originally Casone. Funny story which I witnessed years ago was that Joe was sitting in the bar at Maria's with a lady friend and they were all over each other. Someone at the bar called Joe's girlfriend and told her. Well, she came down to the restaurant and proceeded to beat the living shit out of the girl in front of everyone. You would have thought she would have lit into Joe but she gave the beating instead to the girl.

cavita wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:58 am

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:54 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:35 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:56 am

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:32 am

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

Interesting story about the Roma Bakery in FBI files was supposedly sometime in the 1960s the owner's son got in debt to the Rockford LCN to the tune of $37,000. The files said the owner sold the bakery to cover the debt. The original owners were the Marinelli family and at some point ownership changed hands to the Bowler family who was the son-in-law. Now, I still have to find out when this took place or even who the Marinelli son was.

That is very interesting. Surprised the Outfit just didn’t take it over in place of the debt. Was the Bowler family still running it when it closed this past year? Also, where was the original location?

The Bowler family was still running it when it closed earlier this year. I'll have to do some digging as to where the original location was but when it closed it was on Marchesano Drive.

Let me know if you find out where it was originally. Yep right on Marchesano Dr across from the monastery. I went there about three months before it closed. Was sad to hear it closed.

So Roma Bakery was started on West Street in 1924 by Ernest Marinelli, native of Italy. He retired in 1952 and his nephew Gene Bowler took it over at the request of Bowler's parents. When Gene took it over there were three locations- West Street, Brooke Road and the Meadow Mart Shopping Center in Loves Park, Illinois. Since that time Gene closed the other locations and just focused on the West Street location which when it expanded, became the Marchesano Drive location in that shopping center. Gene ran the business into the 1980s and then his son John Bowler took it over until it closed last December. I can't find any instance where the son of the owner was in debt to the Rockford LCN but perhaps that happened and that was when the owner sold off one or both of the other locations and paid the debt to the tune of $37,000.

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:54 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:35 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:56 am

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:32 am

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

Interesting story about the Roma Bakery in FBI files was supposedly sometime in the 1960s the owner's son got in debt to the Rockford LCN to the tune of $37,000. The files said the owner sold the bakery to cover the debt. The original owners were the Marinelli family and at some point ownership changed hands to the Bowler family who was the son-in-law. Now, I still have to find out when this took place or even who the Marinelli son was.

That is very interesting. Surprised the Outfit just didn’t take it over in place of the debt. Was the Bowler family still running it when it closed this past year? Also, where was the original location?

The Bowler family was still running it when it closed earlier this year. I'll have to do some digging as to where the original location was but when it closed it was on Marchesano Drive.

Let me know if you find out where it was originally. Yep right on Marchesano Dr across from the monastery. I went there about three months before it closed. Was sad to hear it closed.

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:35 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:56 am

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:32 am

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

Interesting story about the Roma Bakery in FBI files was supposedly sometime in the 1960s the owner's son got in debt to the Rockford LCN to the tune of $37,000. The files said the owner sold the bakery to cover the debt. The original owners were the Marinelli family and at some point ownership changed hands to the Bowler family who was the son-in-law. Now, I still have to find out when this took place or even who the Marinelli son was.

That is very interesting. Surprised the Outfit just didn’t take it over in place of the debt. Was the Bowler family still running it when it closed this past year? Also, where was the original location?

The Bowler family was still running it when it closed earlier this year. I'll have to do some digging as to where the original location was but when it closed it was on Marchesano Drive.

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:56 am

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:32 am

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

Interesting story about the Roma Bakery in FBI files was supposedly sometime in the 1960s the owner's son got in debt to the Rockford LCN to the tune of $37,000. The files said the owner sold the bakery to cover the debt. The original owners were the Marinelli family and at some point ownership changed hands to the Bowler family who was the son-in-law. Now, I still have to find out when this took place or even who the Marinelli son was.

That is very interesting. Surprised the Outfit just didn’t take it over in place of the debt. Was the Bowler family still running it when it closed this past year? Also, where was the original location?

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:32 am

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

Interesting story about the Roma Bakery in FBI files was supposedly sometime in the 1960s the owner's son got in debt to the Rockford LCN to the tune of $37,000. The files said the owner sold the bakery to cover the debt. The original owners were the Marinelli family and at some point ownership changed hands to the Bowler family who was the son-in-law. Now, I still have to find out when this took place or even who the Marinelli son was.

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:10 am

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:43 am

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:51 am It's absolutely possible though I've never heard of someone being made in one family and then committing murder for another family as a way to get made to that family. I just assumed memberships transferred without another test so to speak. By the time Buscemi was "made" in Rockford he was something like 48 years old which seems to be kind of late to be made a member but then I have to remember Frank Correnti was made in 1965 at the age of 54.

Thanks again bud and yeah I agree that many guys were made during their later years.

To be honest, I look at the Buscemi story being similar to Roselli's. I dont have any proof if Roselli committed any high level killings or additional crimes for the Chicago family before he was transferred in 1957, although we can see that he was long time friend of Esposito, Ricca and other fellas and he was involved in the infamous Hollywood extortion case which mostly involved people from Chicago. When Giancana became the boss, his prime rules were to give certain tasks, including murder, to candidates and future members. So maybe Roselli killed someone or offered some lucrative scheme and later he got transferred under Giancana.

Buscemi was allegedly under DeGeorge and it seems all of his main crimes start from the early 40s and so it is quite possible that after a decade or less, he became a made guy. During the old days, only the most "famous" guys used several aliases and it seems that Buscemi was just one of them and to be honest, he was good in keeping his real name clean. So maybe after the many executions of the old time Northsiders and DeGeorge being exiled from Chicago, Buscemi started to lose his influence and by the mid 50s transferred to Rockford for the right "price", meaning he had to kill someone....afterall years later the Chi boys pushed for Buscemi to take the throne in Rockford right?! Dont forget this is pure speculation lol

All good points. I have to wonder how Buscemi got hooked up with Rockford in the first place. I know Buscemi's sister married Joe Zammuto's son but there has to be a connection other than that. I'm wondering if Phil Priola hand a hand in it with his father being an old time Outfit member. Priola was originally living in Rockford before being thrown out by Tony Musso sometime in the early 40s. While in Chicago Priola operated a tavern and then was welcomes back to Rockford around 1954. Perhaps Priola became acquainted with Buscemi during that time.

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:43 am

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:51 am It's absolutely possible though I've never heard of someone being made in one family and then committing murder for another family as a way to get made to that family. I just assumed memberships transferred without another test so to speak. By the time Buscemi was "made" in Rockford he was something like 48 years old which seems to be kind of late to be made a member but then I have to remember Frank Correnti was made in 1965 at the age of 54.

Thanks again bud and yeah I agree that many guys were made during their later years.

To be honest, I look at the Buscemi story being similar to Roselli's. I dont have any proof if Roselli committed any high level killings or additional crimes for the Chicago family before he was transferred in 1957, although we can see that he was long time friend of Esposito, Ricca and other fellas and he was involved in the infamous Hollywood extortion case which mostly involved people from Chicago. When Giancana became the boss, his prime rules were to give certain tasks, including murder, to candidates and future members. So maybe Roselli killed someone or offered some lucrative scheme and later he got transferred under Giancana.

Buscemi was allegedly under DeGeorge and it seems all of his main crimes start from the early 40s and so it is quite possible that after a decade or less, he became a made guy. During the old days, only the most "famous" guys used several aliases and it seems that Buscemi was just one of them and to be honest, he was good in keeping his real name clean. So maybe after the many executions of the old time Northsiders and DeGeorge being exiled from Chicago, Buscemi started to lose his influence and by the mid 50s transferred to Rockford for the right "price", meaning he had to kill someone....afterall years later the Chi boys pushed for Buscemi to take the throne in Rockford right?! Dont forget this is pure speculation lol

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:51 am It's absolutely possible though I've never heard of someone being made in one family and then committing murder for another family as a way to get made to that family. I just assumed memberships transferred without another test so to speak. By the time Buscemi was "made" in Rockford he was something like 48 years old which seems to be kind of late to be made a member but then I have to remember Frank Correnti was made in 1965 at the age of 54.

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:36 am

cavita wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:48 pm

Villain wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:29 am If Buscemi was born in 1911/12, can this be the same guy since in 1945 he was 34/35 years old...Cavita, was Buscemi ever arrested during the mid 1940s?

Villain-

I just found that Buscemi was indicted in Chicago on May 18, 1940 on the attempted robbery and assault with intent to commit murder charge. I don't know what name he was using at the time but I hope this helps.

Im sorry you just reminded me on this post...is there any possibility that Buscemi mightve been previously made in Chicago and later transferred his membership in Rockford? I know what you said previously on when Buscemi ended up on Rockfords table but still is there any posibility regarding my previous question?

cavita wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:48 pm

Villain wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:29 am If Buscemi was born in 1911/12, can this be the same guy since in 1945 he was 34/35 years old...Cavita, was Buscemi ever arrested during the mid 1940s?

Villain-

I just found that Buscemi was indicted in Chicago on May 18, 1940 on the attempted robbery and assault with intent to commit murder charge. I don't know what name he was using at the time but I hope this helps.

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

Villain wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:29 am If Buscemi was born in 1911/12, can this be the same guy since in 1945 he was 34/35 years old...Cavita, was Buscemi ever arrested during the mid 1940s?

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:50 am

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:22 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:14 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:05 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:58 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:41 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

I personally haven't heard this but then again sometimes I'm limited in what information there is whenever I get back to Rockford. Him meeting at Roma Bakery confuses me because the bakery didn't have anywhere to sit and the standing space was only about eight feet by twenty feet. I do know he frequents the four Italian social clubs very often as well as the Off Track Betting place. In the most recent past he was a fixture at Maria's Restaurant (it closed a few years ago) and he and his associates would count gambling proceeds in the kitchen there after hours.

They had a couple of small tables if i remember correctly and he would sit at one. He would go in the mornings before lunch for coffee and who ever was meeting him would sit in the other chair. I saw him there once while I was picking up some cannolis but he looked to by himself at the time. I didn’t go there regularly to confirm what I heard.

I heard of Marias and was disappointed that I never went. Heard the food was amazing. I heard the same family opened up another restaurant in Loves Park I think.

Maria's was awesome and was owned by the Cason family which the name was originally Casone. Funny story which I witnessed years ago was that Joe was sitting in the bar at Maria's with a lady friend and they were all over each other. Someone at the bar called Joe's girlfriend and told her. Well, she came down to the restaurant and proceeded to beat the living shit out of the girl in front of everyone. You would have thought she would have lit into Joe but she gave the beating instead to the girl.

That’s hilarious. I guess nobody every told Joe don’t shit where you eat lol

Just looked it up, the new place is called “Joe's Casa Di Amici” and it is in Loves Park. I guess I will have to try it out since it is the same owners. Probably won’t be the same but should be similar.

I have yet to eat there and it is run by Joey Carson who ran Maria's with his mother and brother. I have heard that Joe Sal's son is running a slot place now and many are convinced that it's really Joe's place but since he's a felon he can't legally own it. Strange thing, there are many, many younger Italian/Sicilian guys in the Rockford, Rockton, Roscoe, Beloit and South Beloit areas that are running slots places now.

That is a very interesting statement that young italian guys have opened these legal slot places. Those places, if they are legal, are very hard to skim since it’s mandatory that cameras be in there at all times and the gambling office in Springfield can view anytime they want. I’m not sure about Wisconsin. Cavita, are any of these guys related to Rockford Outfit guys?

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:22 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:14 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:05 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:58 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:41 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm What I have heard is that Joe Saladino is the top
guy in Rockford now. He runs what is left of the organization in Rockford. I will also say this because the place closed last year. Cavita, I’m sure you have been there and knew it since it was in your neighborhood but Saladino use hang out at the Roma Bakery in the old italian neighborhood and his people use to come and meet him there. Place closed down last year after being open for 80 years or something like that.

I personally haven't heard this but then again sometimes I'm limited in what information there is whenever I get back to Rockford. Him meeting at Roma Bakery confuses me because the bakery didn't have anywhere to sit and the standing space was only about eight feet by twenty feet. I do know he frequents the four Italian social clubs very often as well as the Off Track Betting place. In the most recent past he was a fixture at Maria's Restaurant (it closed a few years ago) and he and his associates would count gambling proceeds in the kitchen there after hours.

They had a couple of small tables if i remember correctly and he would sit at one. He would go in the mornings before lunch for coffee and who ever was meeting him would sit in the other chair. I saw him there once while I was picking up some cannolis but he looked to by himself at the time. I didn’t go there regularly to confirm what I heard.

I heard of Marias and was disappointed that I never went. Heard the food was amazing. I heard the same family opened up another restaurant in Loves Park I think.

Maria's was awesome and was owned by the Cason family which the name was originally Casone. Funny story which I witnessed years ago was that Joe was sitting in the bar at Maria's with a lady friend and they were all over each other. Someone at the bar called Joe's girlfriend and told her. Well, she came down to the restaurant and proceeded to beat the living shit out of the girl in front of everyone. You would have thought she would have lit into Joe but she gave the beating instead to the girl.

That’s hilarious. I guess nobody every told Joe don’t shit where you eat lol

Just looked it up, the new place is called “Joe's Casa Di Amici” and it is in Loves Park. I guess I will have to try it out since it is the same owners. Probably won’t be the same but should be similar.

I have yet to eat there and it is run by Joey Carson who ran Maria's with his mother and brother. I have heard that Joe Sal's son is running a slot place now and many are convinced that it's really Joe's place but since he's a felon he can't legally own it. Strange thing, there are many, many younger Italian/Sicilian guys in the Rockford, Rockton, Roscoe, Beloit and South Beloit areas that are running slots places now.