THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **TommyGambino** » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:50 am

Whats left of the Genovese family

by **Wiseguy** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:19 am

outfit guy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:31 amBelieve as you wish. Unless you're wholesaling narcotics, not a lot out there. The Lottery, Sport Betting, Poker and even Purchasing a Dinner Date (Escort) are legal.

I think you're projecting your own Outfit frustrations outward. I could show you 20 years of Genovese indictments that show otherwise.

They've declined too, albeit the least of all the families, but the picture you're trying to paint of old men with little going on is not reality.

by **TommyNoto** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:15 am

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:55 pm
outfit guy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:27 pm It means the crews are elderly old men. Even FBI surveillance confirmed everyone over 60 that showed. Who are they?
When it comes to the bigger byzantine rackets like dockwork, construction, the buildings trade, things like that... what the Genovese is now known for, in NYC and NJ there's such a weird, old culture entrenched that even on the 100% legitimate side, it's still a tight circle & good old boys club... who else but middle aged or even elderly men? These guys are plugged in and can navigate that world. Rackets that go beyond drugs, fraud, and muscle that require that old fashioned NYC grift are perfect for these guys.

Plus you gotta think a lot of these made guys, especially in the genovese, we see them as 'lowly' soliders here on a simple chart, but in the real world a lot are bosses in their own right. they have people under them, jumping when they say jump, opening doors, picking up tabs, are known.

Lastly, while there's prob a good amount of guys on these charts in their 70s and 80s who aren't working, you gotta think that the ones who ARE are true believers. Using genovese guys as an example if they're making guys in there 50s or 60s, almost always those guys have been "active" since they were teenagers. They rode with it for that long there's way less of a chance they'll be flipping, doing dumb shit, not knowing how to navigate the politics, etc. it's weird but seems like a surefire strategy

Well said and the below NJ bust describes what you laid out. Good soldiers with tentacles everywhere that have their own strong crew all on the DL.

Here is a largely unknown DL soldier running a $4m shark book and hundreds million check cashing, port trucking co bust outs and with how secretive they are he probably had all kinds of other shit.

I don’t believe they still aren’t active on the docks. My boy that works there got took for a $60K stock scam just a few years ago by some knuckleheads there. Obviously not like back in the day but my $ says they have all kinds of shit going on. That area is still in the 80s

https://patch.com/new-jersey/newprovide ... s-revealed

by **outfit guy** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:31 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:10 pm
outfit guy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:50 am The power of the Genovese family in N.J. died with Tino and the imprisonment of Coppola. I mean, you have a slob adult dancing club owner openly talking and nothing happens. Honestly!
Is this a feeble attempt at trolling or what?

outfit guy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:52 amAn anonymous LE made the statement in surveilling the wake of ILA member. The only identified Genovese Family attendee under 50 was Coppola's step-son.
First, who shows up at a wake isn't necessarily reflective of everyone in a crew. Second, in terms of average age of their members, the Genovese family is the oldest in NY. It hasn't exactly stopped them from remaining on top.

Believe as you wish. Unless you're wholesaling narcotics, not a lot out there. The Lottery, Sport Betting, Poker and even Purchasing a Dinner Date (Escort) are legal.

by **Shellackhead** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:33 am

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:26 am
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:10 pmSecond, in terms of average age of their members, the Genovese family is the oldest in NY. It hasn't exactly stopped them from remaining on top.
The long apprenticeship they make their prospective members serve is actually one of the reasons they are on top.

Few and far between are the 20-30 year olds with buttons from the westside.

Only a few people get made between 20-30, most get made 30-40 but Genovese guys take 10-15+ years only take the most standup/highest standard that’s why they have so very few inducted members flipping

by **johnny_scootch** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:26 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:10 pmSecond, in terms of average age of their members, the Genovese family is the oldest in NY. It hasn't exactly stopped them from remaining on top.

The long apprenticeship they make their prospective members serve is actually one of the reasons they are on top.

Few and far between are the 20-30 year olds with buttons from the westside.

by **Wiseguy** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:10 pm

outfit guy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:50 am The power of the Genovese family in N.J. died with Tino and the imprisonment of Coppola. I mean, you have a slob adult dancing club owner openly talking and nothing happens. Honestly!

Is this a feeble attempt at trolling or what?

outfit guy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:52 amAn anonymous LE made the statement in surveilling the wake of ILA member. The only identified Genovese Family attendee under 50 was Coppola's step-son.

First, who shows up at a wake isn't necessarily reflective of everyone in a crew. Second, in terms of average age of their members, the Genovese family is the oldest in NY. It hasn't exactly stopped them from remaining on top.

by **outfit guy** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:52 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:05 pm
outfit guy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:27 pm It means the crews are elderly old men. Even FBI surveillance confirmed everyone over 60 that showed. Who are they?
Who showed where? What are you talking about?

Anyway, 60's, 70's, that's prime age for LCN made guys. Though that's not to say there aren't younger guys available. The question is one of activity.

An anonymous LE made the statement in surveilling the wake of ILA member. The only identified Genovese Family attendee under 50 was Coppola's step-son.

by **outfit guy** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:50 am

The power of the Genovese family in N.J. died with Tino and the imprisonment of Coppola. I mean, you have a slob adult dancing club owner openly talking and nothing happens. Honestly!

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:21 pm

newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:55 pm
outfit guy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:27 pm It means the crews are elderly old men. Even FBI surveillance confirmed everyone over 60 that showed. Who are they?
When it comes to the bigger byzantine rackets like dockwork, construction, the buildings trade, things like that... what the Genovese is now known for, in NYC and NJ there's such a weird, old culture entrenched that even on the 100% legitimate side, it's still a tight circle & good old boys club... who else but middle aged or even elderly men? These guys are plugged in and can navigate that world. Rackets that go beyond drugs, fraud, and muscle that require that old fashioned NYC grift are perfect for these guys.

Plus you gotta think a lot of these made guys, especially in the genovese, we see them as 'lowly' soliders here on a simple chart, but in the real world a lot are bosses in their own right. they have people under them, jumping when they say jump, opening doors, picking up tabs, are known.

Lastly, while there's prob a good amount of guys on these charts in their 70s and 80s who aren't working, you gotta think that the ones who ARE are true believers. Using genovese guys as an example if they're making guys in there 50s or 60s, almost always those guys have been "active" since they were teenagers. They rode with it for that long there's way less of a chance they'll be flipping, doing dumb shit, not knowing how to navigate the politics, etc. it's weird but seems like a surefire strategy

GOOD post.

by **newera_212** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:55 pm

outfit guy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:27 pm It means the crews are elderly old men. Even FBI surveillance confirmed everyone over 60 that showed. Who are they?

When it comes to the bigger byzantine rackets like dockwork, construction, the buildings trade, things like that... what the Genovese is now known for, in NYC and NJ there's such a weird, old culture entrenched that even on the 100% legitimate side, it's still a tight circle & good old boys club... who else but middle aged or even elderly men? These guys are plugged in and can navigate that world. Rackets that go beyond drugs, fraud, and muscle that require that old fashioned NYC grift are perfect for these guys.

Plus you gotta think a lot of these made guys, especially in the genovese, we see them as 'lowly' soliders here on a simple chart, but in the real world a lot are bosses in their own right. they have people under them, jumping when they say jump, opening doors, picking up tabs, are known.

Lastly, while there's prob a good amount of guys on these charts in their 70s and 80s who aren't working, you gotta think that the ones who ARE are true believers. Using genovese guys as an example if they're making guys in there 50s or 60s, almost always those guys have been "active" since they were teenagers. They rode with it for that long there's way less of a chance they'll be flipping, doing dumb shit, not knowing how to navigate the politics, etc. it's weird but seems like a surefire strategy

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:05 pm

outfit guy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:27 pm It means the crews are elderly old men. Even FBI surveillance confirmed everyone over 60 that showed. Who are they?

Who showed where? What are you talking about?

Anyway, 60's, 70's, that's prime age for LCN made guys. Though that's not to say there aren't younger guys available. The question is one of activity.

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:49 pm

outfit guy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:27 pm It means the crews are elderly old men. Even FBI surveillance confirmed everyone over 60 that showed. Who are they?

So you know the crew make-up?
Everybody?

by **outfit guy** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:27 pm

It means the crews are elderly old men. Even FBI surveillance confirmed everyone over 60 that showed. Who are they?

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:11 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:53 amYeah we’ve had relatively little on the Westside Jersey makeup for around a decade. I’d love a modern breakdown of the crews/members etc.

We have DeVita, DePiro (love to know members/crew sizes) We have the Bruschi crew, who’s taken that over? The Dente crew (his son took over??) and Daniel Pagano has interests/crew in Jersey (is he jersey based??)?

Am I missing anyone?

It’s a mess to yours.

It sure would be nice if we got an updated breakdown of all the NY crews like we did with the Luccheses.

Anyway, trying to figure out the Genovese family in Jersey is enough to drive you crazy. The 2004 NJ OC report listed 5 crews - Fiumara, Devita, Gatto, Bruschi, and Prisco. On top of that, you also had Dentico identified/indicted as a captain elsewhere.

Some people, perhaps correctly, think there's always been three Genovese crews based in Jersey. Obviously an important distinction from a crew based elsewhere but with operations in Jersey.

Fiumara (now DePiro?) and Devita, of course, are based there. Bruschi as well.

There was some disagreement among law enforcement whether Gatto was actually a captain before he died.

Seems Prisco was based elsewhere but simply had operations in Jersey. The 2004 report connected LaScala to the Prisco crew and he, of course, was indicted as a captain himself before he died.

Neither the Dente or Pagano crews are based in Jersey.

moneyman wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:12 pmWasn't Persico forced to live in NJ for legal reasons? The NJ Genovese waterfront stuff is super interesting.

They definitely got the better end of the deal when they split the NY/NJ waterfront with the Gambinos. The vast majority of the shipping is on the Jersey side now and is why most of the ILA/waterfront cases in the last 20 years have been tied to the Genovese/Jersey docks.

It should be noted that, according to the Waterfront Commission, members from all 5 NY families, as well as the New Jersey and Philly families, have friends or relatives working on the docks.

I've always thought their reputation as the strongest family is in large part due to how long they've dominated NJ based rackets. I think I read in one of the big Philly threads that this dates back to when Caponigro forfeited or gave the Genovese some of his rackets.

I think they have always been the biggest family in the state. Caponigro's operations were just something else they wanted.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:08 pm It doesn't seem the Genovese made many people during the 80s. There was that meeting from 1988 where Gotti brought up how the Genovese hadn't made anyone in a while and had a bunch of slots to fill (something like 30 or 40 I forgot) and Gigante basically told him to mind his business. So there would have been a big backlog of proposed members waiting to get made.

Pogo

I believe it was 40 spots if I remember right. Apparently they made up for it later. In the mid-1990's a NY Magazine article said the Genovese had made 30 new members over the previous two years.

outfit guy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:54 pm Most certainly, there is no "crew" left but leftover old men.

Whatever that means...

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