THE BLACK HAND FORUM

aray22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:28 pm

InCamelot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:22 pm

RushStreet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:35 am https://youtu.be/32YG6v9qGjA?si=-DxiCGtgB23TXTbx

Doesn't mention Rainone I think? Whatever Rainone's last interaction was with Scott, it seemed to have worked.

What happened?

InCamelot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:22 pm

RushStreet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:35 am https://youtu.be/32YG6v9qGjA?si=-DxiCGtgB23TXTbx

Doesn't mention Rainone I think? Whatever Rainone's last interaction was with Scott, it seemed to have worked.

RushStreet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:35 am https://youtu.be/32YG6v9qGjA?si=-DxiCGtgB23TXTbx

JoePuzzles234 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:54 amNotably, he also says there are 50-75 "buttons" in Chicago today which I guess is keeping in line with the whole 24+ members made by Sarno notion

JoePuzzles234 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:54 am Notably, he also says there are 50-75 "buttons" in Chicago today which I guess is keeping in line with the whole 24+ members made by Sarno notion

Coloboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 9:08 pm Then boss Monteleone died in January 2001. Chiaramonte was killed in November of that year later on. I think it’s likely that it was decided sometime in that period that when Marcello got out, it was his spot. He certainly spoke as if he was the boss on the prison tapes with his brother around this time.

Tornabene is often thought to have kept things running for Marcello in this period. I would not be surprised based on that timeline if Marcello approved the hit on Chiaramonti from prison. He was seemingly well informed of goings on based on his prison tapes.

Coloboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 2:55 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 1:31 pm

Coloboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 1:02 pm On the topic of Zizzo ….

One would assume that during this tumultuous period not long after family secrets, the higher-ups in the organization would be pretty hesitant to approve a murder. It makes me think that whatever was going on with Zizzo and his crew, it must’ve been something that threatened to break the entire outfit apart.

I’m going to operate under the assumption that even if Sarno was official boss at this time, he still would’ve had to have backing from other senior members, people like DiFronzo, Andriacchi, and Tornabene.

My running theory is that Zizzo and the remnants of the Aiuppa/Carlisi/Marcello crew went totally rogue, and that they separated themselves entirely from the administration, and were intent on just doing their own things, particularly related to video poker routes, and planned on not paying any tribute to anyone . A contract would have been approved on the basis that it was the only way to keep the organization in one piece.

A quote that sticks out in my mind from Vince Dublino in the Sarno case…. “I don’t work for you, fat ass.” This could be interpreted as they were doing whatever they wanted.

Just food for thought

I believe that Marcello was still boss (or trying to retain the title of boss) and could have been trying to run things through Zizzo (he was doing this prior to Family Secrets, so why not during?). Maybe DiFronzo and the other Outfit leaders did not want this and preferred to have Sarno running Cicero and/or the Outfit (I'm not sure exactly when Sarno took over). Zizzo could have balked at this and was taken out.

Marcello attempting to retain control via Zizzo is a good theory too. I’ve always speculated that one of the reasons that Marcello has been in Supermax (which always seemed wild to me) was that he might have been trying to retain control behind bars

I’ll also add that if Fosco is to be believed, the Marcello and DiFronzo camps didn’t always see eye to eye going back to the late 80’s

Snakes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 1:31 pm

Coloboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 1:02 pm On the topic of Zizzo ….

One would assume that during this tumultuous period not long after family secrets, the higher-ups in the organization would be pretty hesitant to approve a murder. It makes me think that whatever was going on with Zizzo and his crew, it must’ve been something that threatened to break the entire outfit apart.

I’m going to operate under the assumption that even if Sarno was official boss at this time, he still would’ve had to have backing from other senior members, people like DiFronzo, Andriacchi, and Tornabene.

My running theory is that Zizzo and the remnants of the Aiuppa/Carlisi/Marcello crew went totally rogue, and that they separated themselves entirely from the administration, and were intent on just doing their own things, particularly related to video poker routes, and planned on not paying any tribute to anyone . A contract would have been approved on the basis that it was the only way to keep the organization in one piece.

A quote that sticks out in my mind from Vince Dublino in the Sarno case…. “I don’t work for you, fat ass.” This could be interpreted as they were doing whatever they wanted.

Just food for thought

I believe that Marcello was still boss (or trying to retain the title of boss) and could have been trying to run things through Zizzo (he was doing this prior to Family Secrets, so why not during?). Maybe DiFronzo and the other Outfit leaders did not want this and preferred to have Sarno running Cicero and/or the Outfit (I'm not sure exactly when Sarno took over). Zizzo could have balked at this and was taken out.

Coloboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 1:02 pm On the topic of Zizzo ….

One would assume that during this tumultuous period not long after family secrets, the higher-ups in the organization would be pretty hesitant to approve a murder. It makes me think that whatever was going on with Zizzo and his crew, it must’ve been something that threatened to break the entire outfit apart.

I’m going to operate under the assumption that even if Sarno was official boss at this time, he still would’ve had to have backing from other senior members, people like DiFronzo, Andriacchi, and Tornabene.

My running theory is that Zizzo and the remnants of the Aiuppa/Carlisi/Marcello crew went totally rogue, and that they separated themselves entirely from the administration, and were intent on just doing their own things, particularly related to video poker routes, and planned on not paying any tribute to anyone . A contract would have been approved on the basis that it was the only way to keep the organization in one piece.

A quote that sticks out in my mind from Vince Dublino in the Sarno case…. “I don’t work for you, fat ass.” This could be interpreted as they were doing whatever they wanted.

Just food for thought