Official boss of the same family more than once?

Post a reply

Confirmation code
Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive.

BBCode is OFF
Smilies are OFF

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Official boss of the same family more than once?

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by Frank » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:12 pm

Did Lima come back as SF boss? Then Lanza could also been boss twice??

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by Frank » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:45 pm

Chris Christie wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:28 pm
chin_gigante wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:50 pm Mineo became underboss at the same time that Colombo became the boss in 1964. When the captains were asked to poll their crews they were asked what they thought of both Colombo as boss and Mineo as under. Mineo was also still underboss at the time that Colombo was shot but I'm not sure if he was still in the position from then until Abbatemarco got it or if the position was vacant. I don't know where the Franzese as underboss in the 60s thing comes from. Michael Franzese has said it I think but I don't know whether he was the original source for that. Either way, it looks like it was wrong and Mineo was the underboss for Colombo's entire reign. Strikes me as sort of like the same misinformation that would incorrectly identify Galante as Bonanno's underboss instead of Garofalo and Morales
So John Franzese wasn't underboss in the 60's, ok, thanks. Didn't mean to parrot a falsehood.
It was stated somewhere that Sonny was underboss in the 60s, but that was corrected when info about Mineo was found. So you were just using outdated info.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by chin_gigante » Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:35 pm

One of us has to be the good cop, B.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by B. » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:11 pm

Speak for yourself, Chin. That kind of mistake at the very least should result in Christie being demoted as mod and, if I was Soliai, I might give him a little break from the board if you know what I mean.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by chin_gigante » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:48 pm

It's all good, no harm no foul

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by Angelo Santino » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:28 pm

chin_gigante wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:50 pm Mineo became underboss at the same time that Colombo became the boss in 1964. When the captains were asked to poll their crews they were asked what they thought of both Colombo as boss and Mineo as under. Mineo was also still underboss at the time that Colombo was shot but I'm not sure if he was still in the position from then until Abbatemarco got it or if the position was vacant. I don't know where the Franzese as underboss in the 60s thing comes from. Michael Franzese has said it I think but I don't know whether he was the original source for that. Either way, it looks like it was wrong and Mineo was the underboss for Colombo's entire reign. Strikes me as sort of like the same misinformation that would incorrectly identify Galante as Bonanno's underboss instead of Garofalo and Morales
So John Franzese wasn't underboss in the 60's, ok, thanks. Didn't mean to parrot a falsehood.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by B. » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:15 pm

MichaelGiovanni wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:07 pm Joe C might say Michael Mancuso was the boss twice
Hahaha. Galante would have said the same about Rastelli, but he wasn't available to comment.

What I found amazing in the Massino testimony was where he said he wanted both Joe Cammarano Jr. and Michael Mancuso to be on the ruling panel in 2005. So even Massino saw them as potential leaders.

Mancuso wasn't his choice, he was Basciano's, but he was fine with Mancuso being on the panel while he didn't think Basciano's other choice Tony Rabito was capable. Massino's first choice for the panel was Jerry Asaro.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by MichaelGiovanni » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:07 pm

Joe C might say Michael Mancuso was the boss twice

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by Eld » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 am

B. wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:39 pm Was Franzese the underboss in the 1960s? I'd have to comb through the info, but I think it went Magliocco->Misuraca->Mineo. I can't remember who was there after Mineo and before Abbatemarco, if anyone.
If I remember right Vincent Aloi was the acting underboss/underboss during 1971-74, at least for a period during those years.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by B. » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:05 pm

Great point, re: Galante. Honor Thy Father or one of those books claims Galante was the consigliere.

There is a mysterious FBI report that says Galante had been part of a "crew of capos" along with Joe Zicarelli and Frank LaBruzzo that ran the family while Joe Bonanno was boss, while John Morales represented Bonanno at meetings in his absence. That was true about Morales, though Zicarelli wasn't a captain at the same time as Galante and I'm not sure LaBruzzo was a captain yet either.

Galante may have held the "top captain" position that Lefty told Pistone was held by Napolitano and earlier FBI reports say was held by Nicky Marangello. That might explain why he was often confused as an admin member. Top/senior captain seems to have been a semi-official role in the Bonanno family that helped run the organization. I wonder too if the family's constant use of ruling panels from the 1970s-2000s, even when the boss was on the street, goes back further.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by chin_gigante » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:50 pm

Mineo became underboss at the same time that Colombo became the boss in 1964. When the captains were asked to poll their crews they were asked what they thought of both Colombo as boss and Mineo as under. Mineo was also still underboss at the time that Colombo was shot but I'm not sure if he was still in the position from then until Abbatemarco got it or if the position was vacant. I don't know where the Franzese as underboss in the 60s thing comes from. Michael Franzese has said it I think but I don't know whether he was the original source for that. Either way, it looks like it was wrong and Mineo was the underboss for Colombo's entire reign. Strikes me as sort of like the same misinformation that would incorrectly identify Galante as Bonanno's underboss instead of Garofalo and Morales

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by B. » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:39 pm

Chris Christie wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:43 am Bosses, that's tough. San Francisco?

Underbosses more than once? Sonny Franzese, in the 60's and then in the 2000's. There's gotta be more.

I suspect there's alot of members who do not want the added responsibility. We always hear about how the best bosses are independently wealthy before gaining the position, I guess that is true when compared to a Natale or the Persicos who viewed their groups as an extension of themselves and a way to line their pockets. Junior Perisco became the boss that his younger self was fighting against.
SF is a great point. The FBI thought Lanza stepped down in the early 1970s and that former boss Anthony Lima became boss again, but it later came out that Lanza was still the official boss. Lima was trying to become boss again, though, so he at least thought it was possible. It makes you wonder with a family like that... if a family is dwindling and there are few candidates, is someone going to say, "You can't be boss again"? If there was ever a rule about that, it seems like would have been ignored out of necessity as time went on though I still don't know of any concrete examples.

Was Franzese the underboss in the 1960s? I'd have to comb through the info, but I think it went Magliocco->Misuraca->Mineo. I can't remember who was there after Mineo and before Abbatemarco, if anyone.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by Angelo Santino » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:43 am

Bosses, that's tough. San Francisco?

Underbosses more than once? Sonny Franzese, in the 60's and then in the 2000's (Incorrect, Retract). There's gotta be more.

I suspect there's alot of members who do not want the added responsibility. We always hear about how the best bosses are independently wealthy before gaining the position, I guess that is true when compared to a Natale or the Persicos who viewed their groups as an extension of themselves and a way to line their pockets. Junior Perisco became the boss that his younger self was fighting against.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by B. » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:55 pm

We know positively that the appointed position of captain can be demoted and then promoted back to captain of the same crew or a new/different crew.

What about underboss? Trying to think of any multi-term underbosses. Would seem to be like captain given it's another appointed position.

Re: Official boss of the same family more than once?

by B. » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:44 pm

Chicago doesn't apply then, as it's about anyone who was recognized as "rappresentante officiale" (or its equivalent) more than once in the same family. Mainly looking to figure out if the same "one term" rule for consigliere also applied to boss/rappresentante in mafia rules.

Should point out that Nicky Scarfo may have been attempting to reclaim his title as boss for most of his time in prison, though we found out the Lucchese family still considered him official boss as of the early 2010s so if he had succeeded he may not have truly been a second-term boss in his and Amuso's eyes. The whole scenario was ridiculous anyway and not too different from Bonanno's endless quest to become a boss again.

Top