THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by B. » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:55 pm

Incredible find, relevant to discussions in the Buffalo thread.

The placement of those redactions might suggest a relation or perhaps business arrangement between Longo and Papalia and/or Pieri (I'd lean toward the former, as redactions tend to favor people rather than operations, though there is no exact science). There could also be a redacted name within those sections. Difficult to tell, but just my thoughts having reviewed thousands of similar documents over the years.

It also confirms the territorial protocol (which we already assumed, based on standard mafia protocol) that members must have Buffalo approval to operate in Ontario and that Dominic Longo stayed involved in Ontario to some capacity after becoming an LA member.

Great eye, Nickle!

by **NickleCity** » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:29 am

B. wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:41 pm
Costigan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:24 pm
johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:07 pm This situation reminds me of a guy that was from Montreal but moved out to LA where he owned a very successful car dealership and he was made by the LA family. If I remember correctly he was almost totally legitimate and after being made he was looking for someone to go back to Montreal with him and introduce him around to all the guys he knew out there as a made guy. This is all from The Last Mafioso, I can't seem to recall the name and I don't have access to the book because I'm not at home. So if this Canadian Iavarone was really made in LA he wouldn't be the first.
Dominic Longo, who owned a Toyota dealership. I was in LA on business a few times in the 1990's & was surprised to see the logo "Longo Toyota" on cars even then.
Those Longos are connected to the Buffalo family actually and are from Hamilton. Stefano Magaddino was recorded discussing them on his office tapes. We talked about them on here a couple years ago here:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3340&p=71636

Some of the details still need to be sorted out, but it appears Dominick Longo was associated with John Papalia in Ontario.

I had no idea Fratianno talked about Dominick Longo. He said he was made into the LA family? A couple people in that old thread even said he was an LA member.

Don't know if this doc helps figure anything out but, "Source stated that although [reacted] Dominic Longo is a member of the Los Angeles LCN Family, and although [redacted] Johnny Pops it is still necessary that he gets permission from Buffalo [redacted]. And then next page gives an example of "the Buffalo famly's"control over the Toronto LCN members." Looks like Longo was friends with Sam Pieri as well.

by **JVerilla** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:17 pm

Interesting bit on Murgie, done a bit of researching and it seems Joe Sonkens was a hit for the Burgh mobsters.
Jo Jo's Grand daughter allegedly used to visit there every holidays with Joseph, and after church they'd head over to Uncle John's house, who im assuming is LaRocca.

by **Stroccos** » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:16 pm

Grouchy Sinatra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:13 pm Pretty easy to find out if the mob exists in any particular location, or who the mob is there. Just start a sports book.

Or in Cleveland’s case vending company , the feds started one in the 90’s and busted some people

Cleveland was A open town after jack died

by B. » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:35 pm

The Commission didn't recognize Rochester or Tucson.

Even if you go with "functional" or "viable" as your definition instead of who is recognized by other families, Tucson wouldn't belong on that list in the early 1970s let alone 1988.

Info on them here:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=3115&start=10#p64342

by **Patrickgold** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:30 pm

What about Tucson? Was there an actual family there led by Joe Bonanno? Didn’t he write a book in the 80’s? The commission definitely did not recognize them as a family

by B. » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:56 pm

Been going through telephone records that came out of the La Stella investigation and in 1966 Tampa boss Santo Trafficante Jr. called the home of Carmen Milano in Ohio. Carmen Milano was married to the daughter of Cleveland member Stefano Randazzo (from Carini), who had ties to Tampa.

--

Info on Ohio and regional protocol from Fratianno's testimony at the 1984 hearing:

Q: Is there a lot of involvement by organized crime in medical services in Ohio, in that area of Ohio, as you know?
A: Absolutely.
Q: For example?
A: A guy by the name of Camino has some in Columbus, Ohio. Another kid, by the name of Montana has some dental clinic in Buffalo.

Q: Commissioner Hope asked you a question, you are interested in a dental clinic. Why would the Los Angeles family have an interest in a dental clinic in Ohio and you said that was a way to make money.
THE CHAIRMAN: He said he comes from there.
A: I wouldn't care if it was in Timbuktu. If I had the connection to get union members, I would go anyplace, although if it was in a town where there was a family, I would have to go to them and get, you know, get their approval and chances are whatever money it would make they would get a percentage of it.

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:04 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:42 pm
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:25 pm It was but you have to go back 40 years to find it.

1980 FBI List

Boston-Providence
Buffalo
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit
Los Angeles
New York (5)
New Orleans
Philadelphia
San Francisco
San Jose
Denver-Pueblo (inactive)
Kansas City
Pittsburgh
St. Louis
Pittston-Scranton-Wilkes Barre
Tucson
Rockford
Madison
Elizabeth-Newark
Springfield, IL (inactive)
Tampa

Good find. Some interesting things.

-They list Springfeild as inactive but don't bother to list Dallas. Madison was listed (not as inactive) even though they had in their files that it had disbanded several years before.

-They didn't list Rochester even though the Feds were all over them at the time. Maybe just an oversight when compiling the list.

-They list Denver-Pueblo as inactive in 1980 but continue to recognize them in 1987 and 1992. Though they did bring a case against the Denver leaders in 1984 so maybe that led to their change in status.

Pogo

This was the 1988 list -

Buffalo
Chicago
Cleveland
Denver
Detroit
Kansas City
Los Angeles
Milwaukee
New England
New Jersey
New Orleans
New York (5)
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Pittston
Rochester
San Francisco
San Jose
St. Louis
Tampa
Tucson

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:42 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:39 pm So in 1980 the FBI listed Madison as a viable family when their files from 1973 had information that they disbanded. This is what I find confusing about FBI information- some things are not clear.

It's why I make a distinction between FBI intel from the 1980s-onward and before that.

by **Pogo The Clown** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:42 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:25 pm It was but you have to go back 40 years to find it.

1980 FBI List

Boston-Providence
Buffalo
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit
Los Angeles
New York (5)
New Orleans
Philadelphia
San Francisco
San Jose
Denver-Pueblo (inactive)
Kansas City
Pittsburgh
St. Louis
Pittston-Scranton-Wilkes Barre
Tucson
Rockford
Madison
Elizabeth-Newark
Springfield, IL (inactive)
Tampa

Good find. Some interesting things.

-They list Springfeild as inactive but don't bother to list Dallas. Madison was listed (not as inactive) even though they had in their files that it had disbanded several years before.

-They didn't list Rochester even though the Feds were all over them at the time. Maybe just an oversight when compiling the list.

-They list Denver-Pueblo as inactive in 1980 but continue to recognize them in 1987 and 1992. Though they did bring a case against the Denver leaders in 1984 so maybe that led to their change in status.

Pogo

by **cavita** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:39 pm

So in 1980 the FBI listed Madison as a viable family when their files from 1973 had information that they disbanded. This is what I find confusing about FBI information- some things are not clear.

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:25 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:12 pmI don’t know if Rockford was ever mentioned as one of the 24 families. The feds and other law enforcement seemed to have a difficult time of distinguishing them from being their own family or being part of the Outfit.

It was but you have to go back 40 years to find it.

1980 FBI List

Boston-Providence
Buffalo
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit
Los Angeles
New York (5)
New Orleans
Philadelphia
San Francisco
San Jose
Denver-Pueblo (inactive)
Kansas City
Pittsburgh
St. Louis
Pittston-Scranton-Wilkes Barre
Tucson
Rockford
Madison
Elizabeth-Newark
Springfield, IL (inactive)
Tampa

by **Grouchy Sinatra** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:13 pm

Pretty easy to find out if the mob exists in any particular location, or who the mob is there. Just start a sports book.

by **Patrickgold** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:12 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:48 pm
Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:17 pmDo you think there anything wrong with your life that for the past 20 years you have been on forums arguing about which families are active? And no, I was not a part of those forums but to hear you and the clown say that is entertaining. Your a broken record. You talk about indictments and you had multiple indictments in Buffalo in the last 3 years and you still deny it. I have never been to Buffalo and I know absolutely nothing about Buffalo but the limited articles from indictments and experts that I have read and the UNDERBOSS stating they are still active gives no doubt that they are active. But guess since for the past 20 years (pathetic life) you have been arguing it you mine as well keep the course instead of being a man and admitting your wrong. Rockford you have not layed out any facts or fbi reports, since that is the only thing that you cite Bc you know absolutely NOTHING about Rockford except that is a small city that nobody knows about.
ad-hominem_orig.jpg

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:06 pmYour right, it sure sounds like that. If they didn’t have documented LCN members/associates in this indictment like Saladino and Frisella then I would even say it was not connected. Bc I will be honest. The younger guys in the indictment, I never heard of them. Rockford has always been a mystery, I think even to the feds. I really don’t think they took them seriously and that is why they have thrived for so long with hardly any indictments. The FBI has barely talked about them. I think it has more to do with there being bigger fish to fry in Chicago, which is only 90 miles away.
When was the last time the FBI mentioned most of the formerly 24 families in the country? With many it's been years, if not decades, since the feds had any reason to say anything about them. Rockford died from the #1 killer of mob families - attrition.

I don’t know if Rockford was ever mentioned as one of the 24 families. The feds and other law enforcement seemed to have a difficult time of distinguishing them from being their own family or being part of the Outfit.

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:48 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:17 pmDo you think there anything wrong with your life that for the past 20 years you have been on forums arguing about which families are active? And no, I was not a part of those forums but to hear you and the clown say that is entertaining. Your a broken record. You talk about indictments and you had multiple indictments in Buffalo in the last 3 years and you still deny it. I have never been to Buffalo and I know absolutely nothing about Buffalo but the limited articles from indictments and experts that I have read and the UNDERBOSS stating they are still active gives no doubt that they are active. But guess since for the past 20 years (pathetic life) you have been arguing it you mine as well keep the course instead of being a man and admitting your wrong. Rockford you have not layed out any facts or fbi reports, since that is the only thing that you cite Bc you know absolutely NOTHING about Rockford except that is a small city that nobody knows about.

ad-hominem_orig.jpg

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:06 pmYour right, it sure sounds like that. If they didn’t have documented LCN members/associates in this indictment like Saladino and Frisella then I would even say it was not connected. Bc I will be honest. The younger guys in the indictment, I never heard of them. Rockford has always been a mystery, I think even to the feds. I really don’t think they took them seriously and that is why they have thrived for so long with hardly any indictments. The FBI has barely talked about them. I think it has more to do with there being bigger fish to fry in Chicago, which is only 90 miles away.

When was the last time the FBI mentioned most of the formerly 24 families in the country? With many it's been years, if not decades, since the feds had any reason to say anything about them. Rockford died from the #1 killer of mob families - attrition.

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