by B. » Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:11 pm
gohnjotti wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 5:47 pm
B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:16 pm
You've spent many years on here, you absorb nothing, and every once in a while you choose something small, obnoxious, and random to argue about while remaining completely out of your depth. I actually like you as a guy despite that, Sonny, but I don't understand what your interest in this stuff is. A habit?
A member of a family meeting/socializing with a member of another family happens = Colombo family has a liaison to Buffalo.
That your argument?
That actually is pretty close to my argument. These guys maintain social connections and the social connections inform formal relationships. Maybe your idea of a liaison is something out of a movie but the reality is very social. You see it on virtually all wiretaps where these guys shoot the shit, briefly talk about something formal, then continue on with general conversation about other subjects and life in general.
Sonny, this should be your biggest takeaway from this. I fully see your point about all these connections being a bit of a reach. These same mobsters would probably call it reaching too, because they may not even view themselves as 'liaisons'. It's a formal term to describe informal social connections. But the moment they "liaise", they become liaisons, both in the eyes of the FBI and the media who later report it.
A similar example might be when you consider certain mob associates who might've never thought of themselves as "on-record" with anybody, or even understood the term. Instead, it might just be a mutual understanding that "if I get in trouble with anyone from 'that life,' I know to talk to my friend Joe Blow who will iron things out for me."
Exactly. A lot of these relationships are that way. Tom might never be told "Joe is a made guy whose captain is Jerry and they belong to the Marino Family whose boss is Tony." But Tom knows Joe has stature and he can go to him if someone steps on his toes. Now, Tom probably does know Joe is made and what Family he's with but it's all organic and pretty mundane on a daily, practical level.
If Tom were to flip, it would be outlined in court as "Tom is an on record associate of Joe, a soldier in the crew of capodecina Jerry of the Marino Crime Family currently headed by acting boss Tony." That is true but it wouldn't need to be stated that way on the street nor would it necessarily feel that formal. Same is true for a messenger or liaison.
Pete Lovaglio may have been told fairly casually, "hey, I need you to go talk to Joey from Philly. I also need you to talk to the Jersey guys and the West Side. Tell them this." They didn't put a cloak on him and put a scroll in his hand and say "Peter, we're making you the messaggero officiale of the Bonanno Family in all interactions with the Philadelphia, DeCavalcante, and Genovese borgate", but he was nonetheless the Family's messenger to those groups.
--
It's nothing personal Sonny -- like I said, I like you for the goofball that you are -- but you periodically decide to "care" about some random topic and double down on it while cherry-picking, insulting, and being outright wrong then wonder why you're getting put in your place.
I'm going to assume you're genuinely confused. A longtime Bonanno associate moved to Ontario, where the Buffalo Family has jurisdiction, and associated with a soon-to-be Buffalo underboss while remaining a Bonanno associate. A group of Bonanno representatives visited and inducted the Bonanno associate and included the Buffalo members in the process. Afterward, the Bonanno member recorded conversations with the Buffalo underboss where it was evident Joe Todaro was okay with this arrangement and that the Bonanno Family had reached out to them. It was even discussed how the Los Angeles Family similarly inducted someone from Ontario and this upset Todaro as he hadn't been notified. The Buffalo Family was notified about the Bonannos' plan and that itself means someone was used to communicate this message. That person is a liaison.
We don't know that the Bonannos have a single designated person who carries out this role but given it involves two geographically separate Families with fewer and fewer connections in modern times, it probably means there is a particular person who is in a unique position to carry this message. It is someone who would likely have to be introduced as an amico nostra to the Buffalo members, there being few members in this position, and this person would also have to be someone trusted to do this by both Families, again of which there are very few. The far simpler explanation is that a certain person served as a liaison rather than this all happening chaotically and randomly while somehow following traditional protocol to a tee. We don't know who this person is or why he is in a position to do this, but that is how a Family reaches out to another Family and gets approval to carry out their plan. It has been demonstrated over and over again everywhere in the world Cosa Nostra appears.
[quote=gohnjotti post_id=279810 time=1719449278 user_id=5299]
[quote=B. post_id=279799 time=1719440209 user_id=127]
You've spent many years on here, you absorb nothing, and every once in a while you choose something small, obnoxious, and random to argue about while remaining completely out of your depth. I actually like you as a guy despite that, Sonny, but I don't understand what your interest in this stuff is. A habit?
[quote]A member of a family meeting/socializing with a member of another family happens = Colombo family has a liaison to Buffalo.
That your argument?[/quote]
That actually is pretty close to my argument. These guys maintain social connections and the social connections inform formal relationships. Maybe your idea of a liaison is something out of a movie but the reality is very social. You see it on virtually all wiretaps where these guys shoot the shit, briefly talk about something formal, then continue on with general conversation about other subjects and life in general.
[/quote]
Sonny, this should be your biggest takeaway from this. I fully see your point about all these connections being a bit of a reach. These same mobsters would probably call it reaching too, because they may not even view themselves as 'liaisons'. It's a formal term to describe informal social connections. But the moment they "liaise", they become liaisons, both in the eyes of the FBI and the media who later report it.
A similar example might be when you consider certain mob associates who might've never thought of themselves as "on-record" with anybody, or even understood the term. Instead, it might just be a mutual understanding that "if I get in trouble with anyone from 'that life,' I know to talk to my friend Joe Blow who will iron things out for me."
[/quote]
Exactly. A lot of these relationships are that way. Tom might never be told "Joe is a made guy whose captain is Jerry and they belong to the Marino Family whose boss is Tony." But Tom knows Joe has stature and he can go to him if someone steps on his toes. Now, Tom probably does know Joe is made and what Family he's with but it's all organic and pretty mundane on a daily, practical level.
If Tom were to flip, it would be outlined in court as "Tom is an on record associate of Joe, a soldier in the crew of capodecina Jerry of the Marino Crime Family currently headed by acting boss Tony." That is true but it wouldn't need to be stated that way on the street nor would it necessarily feel that formal. Same is true for a messenger or liaison.
Pete Lovaglio may have been told fairly casually, "hey, I need you to go talk to Joey from Philly. I also need you to talk to the Jersey guys and the West Side. Tell them this." They didn't put a cloak on him and put a scroll in his hand and say "Peter, we're making you the messaggero officiale of the Bonanno Family in all interactions with the Philadelphia, DeCavalcante, and Genovese borgate", but he was nonetheless the Family's messenger to those groups.
--
It's nothing personal Sonny -- like I said, I like you for the goofball that you are -- but you periodically decide to "care" about some random topic and double down on it while cherry-picking, insulting, and being outright wrong then wonder why you're getting put in your place.
I'm going to assume you're genuinely confused. A longtime Bonanno associate moved to Ontario, where the Buffalo Family has jurisdiction, and associated with a soon-to-be Buffalo underboss while remaining a Bonanno associate. A group of Bonanno representatives visited and inducted the Bonanno associate and included the Buffalo members in the process. Afterward, the Bonanno member recorded conversations with the Buffalo underboss where it was evident Joe Todaro was okay with this arrangement and that the Bonanno Family had reached out to them. It was even discussed how the Los Angeles Family similarly inducted someone from Ontario and this upset Todaro as he hadn't been notified. The Buffalo Family was notified about the Bonannos' plan and that itself means someone was used to communicate this message. That person is a liaison.
We don't know that the Bonannos have a single designated person who carries out this role but given it involves two geographically separate Families with fewer and fewer connections in modern times, it probably means there is a particular person who is in a unique position to carry this message. It is someone who would likely have to be introduced as an amico nostra to the Buffalo members, there being few members in this position, and this person would also have to be someone trusted to do this by both Families, again of which there are very few. The far simpler explanation is that a certain person served as a liaison rather than this all happening chaotically and randomly while somehow following traditional protocol to a tee. We don't know who this person is or why he is in a position to do this, but that is how a Family reaches out to another Family and gets approval to carry out their plan. It has been demonstrated over and over again everywhere in the world Cosa Nostra appears.