THE BLACK HAND FORUM

ChicagoOutfit wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:48 am

B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:02 pm

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:19 pm How does someone enter Camorra? is it like entering Cosa Nostra? and in the case of the Capone era?

Someone else can comment on internal Camorra protocol, but from the examples we have, Camorristi had to enter the US mafia the same way any associate would. Camorra was not recognized as "the same thing" as the mafia, so while Sicilian mafia members were recognized as "the same thing" and could be introduced to US mafia members (something that still happens, as evidenced by recent Italian investigations) and therefore transfer their membership, Camorristi had to go through a mafia induction the same way any associate would. Naturally their underworld experience as Camorristi could make them more deserving of induction than an average neighborhood Joe and the mafia would have known who these people were.

Former San Fran boss Tony Lima who turned CI commented on this, as he inducted a Camorrista into the San Francisco family while he was boss. There are similar examples in other cities, too and in each case the Camorristi joined the mafia rather than the other way around, at least by a certain point in history. Richie Boiardo's FBI file includes a report that says this began around 1915. Al Capone and other Masseria/Genovese members are referenced in the same report.

I'm aware of no known examples of Camorristi being recognized as members of the mafia in the US or Sicily based on their status as Camorristi alone, it is only after they have been inducted into the mafia / Cosa Nostra that they are recognized. Of course this is open to review if new info ever comes.

Would Paul Ricca count?

MSFRD wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:09 am Didn’t a pentito in Sicily state that the leaders of the Camorra and ‘Ndrangheta are members of Cosa Nostra and went through the induction ceremony?

B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:02 pm

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:19 pm How does someone enter Camorra? is it like entering Cosa Nostra? and in the case of the Capone era?

Someone else can comment on internal Camorra protocol, but from the examples we have, Camorristi had to enter the US mafia the same way any associate would. Camorra was not recognized as "the same thing" as the mafia, so while Sicilian mafia members were recognized as "the same thing" and could be introduced to US mafia members (something that still happens, as evidenced by recent Italian investigations) and therefore transfer their membership, Camorristi had to go through a mafia induction the same way any associate would. Naturally their underworld experience as Camorristi could make them more deserving of induction than an average neighborhood Joe and the mafia would have known who these people were.

Former San Fran boss Tony Lima who turned CI commented on this, as he inducted a Camorrista into the San Francisco family while he was boss. There are similar examples in other cities, too and in each case the Camorristi joined the mafia rather than the other way around, at least by a certain point in history. Richie Boiardo's FBI file includes a report that says this began around 1915. Al Capone and other Masseria/Genovese members are referenced in the same report.

I'm aware of no known examples of Camorristi being recognized as members of the mafia in the US or Sicily based on their status as Camorristi alone, it is only after they have been inducted into the mafia / Cosa Nostra that they are recognized. Of course this is open to review if new info ever comes.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:39 pm If you want you can look over the vital records from Napoli to see if they really were cousins. I don't have time for it.

Unfortunately it only goes to 1865:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat ... %20Library

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... di+Napoli/

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:19 pm How does someone enter Camorra? is it like entering Cosa Nostra? and in the case of the Capone era?

Antiliar wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:59 am If you notice on the passenger manifest is that it says Gennaro Calabrese lives in Coney Island, but the address is hard to read. The Calabrese that I found who could be a match lived at 6918 Fort Hamilton Ave, which is near Bay Ridge, about 5 miles/8 km from Coney Island. He was born March, 25, 1878 in Naples.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:08 pm The Neapolitan element wasn't large, but maybe you want to include Napoli and the region of Campania, which includes Salerno, Caserta, Benevento and Avellino. Many like Al Capone and the Fischetti brothers were American born, and others like Ralph Capone and Frank Nitto arrived as children. So I think for them the Campanian influence was trivial. Paul Ricca may have been in the Camorra before arriving in the U.S., but once in Chicago he was under Joe Esposito's influence, who in turn was answerable to the Chicago Mafia. Esposito was trying to be legitimate and had a lot of political pull, and I'm sure Ricca learned from that. Capone's mentor John Torrio may have been Camorra connected and was definitely part of the Five Points Gang, but he left all that to manage boxing champion Kid Murphy before joining the Joe Colosimo organization. Colosimo came from Cosenza in Calabria and created what became the Outfit, which as I wrote had an Italian core but with many non-Italians in it. So overall I think the Neapolitan influence was minimal. Capone saw himself as an American of Italian heritage and was open to most ethnicities (obviously there were no black or Hispanic members). When he was made a member under Masseria he had to follow the more traditional Mafia model, but when he became a recognized boss he put his own Americanized Chicago spin on it.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:59 am The Calabrese that I found who could be a match lived at 6918 Fort Hamilton Ave, which is near Bay Ridge, about 5 miles/8 km from Coney Island. He was born March, 25, 1878 in Naples.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:38 am There was a Gennaro Calabrese who was a wine merchant, but no address given. There was someone by that name who was involved in St. Michael's Church in BK - the same church the Capones attended. Might be the importer born in 1879.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:08 pm Paul Ricca may have been in the Camorra before arriving in the U.S., but once in Chicago he was under Joe Esposito's influence, who in turn was answerable to the Chicago Mafia. Esposito was trying to be legitimate and had a lot of political pull, and I'm sure Ricca learned from that.