by B. » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:07 pm
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:15 am
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:59 am
What was it that Gotti said exactly? Something about breaking twenty captains, putting ten in, getting them to vote down Gallo as consigliere, then putting his old captains back in place?
mobstar.PNG
This shows that they still went through the motions of voting a consigliere in (and out) during the Gotti era, but unsurprisingly it could also be fixed behind the scenes (like many boss elections). I'm reminded too of the late 1970s tapes of Testa, Scarfo, Narducci, and Riccobene complaining about the post-Rugnetta consigliere election. Even though they were family leaders, they felt Bruno and a select other group of old timers were basically arranging the election as they saw fit without consulting them. Testa also asked Riccobene if he ever remembered a consigliere election with more than one candidate and he said no -- this was not an "innocent" question and answer, but an indication that Testa and Riccobene felt consigliere elections were rigged in that there was only one prearranged candidate to "vote" for.
Both Greg Scarpa and Stefano Magaddino said when a new boss takes over, all of the captains officially lose their rank and the boss must choose to re-appoint them or appoint others in their place. We know that in most cases a boss will keep many if not most of the captains in their previous positions, but in terms of formal protocol it appears the entire leadership becomes a blank slate when a new boss is elected. Scarpa mentioned this to the FBI when Joe Colombo took over, while Magaddino was recorded explaining how Joe Bonanno's captains lost their official rank when Joe Bonanno was deposed.
The underboss position would follow the same protocol, as he operates at the will of the boss. We know Castellano held a formal meeting where Dellacroce was confirmed as his underboss even though he already held the position under Gambino. This was partly out of respect for Dellacroce but it would have also been traditional protocol.
The consigliere is different because it is traditionally elected by the membership and is not (directly) appointed by the boss. Whether he was joking or making an empty threat or not, this is why Gotti said he would rearrange the captains to vote Gallo out, as he couldn't demote him directly. It's also telling, as we know the entire membership is supposed to have a vote in who becomes boss and consigliere, but we've heard of examples where captains basically make the decision on behalf of their entire decina.
Back to the original point of the thread, that's a very good example of the finer politics within mafia leadership. Bosses like Gotti, Massino, and Scarfo were all bosses of families prone to violent factionalism and this factored into their decision to decentralize power and limit official authority when they were in prison. In contrast, Carmine Persico gave Vic Orena full authority to order murders, induct members, and I believe even promote/demote captains and underbosses and we can see that Orena used this as an opportunity to attempt a full takeover. Gotti, Massino, and Scarfo were sharp mafia politicians no matter what their shortcomings were and these decisions weren't made arbitrarily.
[quote="Chris Christie" post_id=157307 time=1592824549 user_id=69]
[quote=chin_gigante post_id=157305 time=1592823548 user_id=5708]
What was it that Gotti said exactly? Something about breaking twenty captains, putting ten in, getting them to vote down Gallo as consigliere, then putting his old captains back in place?
[/quote]
mobstar.PNG
[/quote]
This shows that they still went through the motions of voting a consigliere in (and out) during the Gotti era, but unsurprisingly it could also be fixed behind the scenes (like many boss elections). I'm reminded too of the late 1970s tapes of Testa, Scarfo, Narducci, and Riccobene complaining about the post-Rugnetta consigliere election. Even though they were family leaders, they felt Bruno and a select other group of old timers were basically arranging the election as they saw fit without consulting them. Testa also asked Riccobene if he ever remembered a consigliere election with more than one candidate and he said no -- this was not an "innocent" question and answer, but an indication that Testa and Riccobene felt consigliere elections were rigged in that there was only one prearranged candidate to "vote" for.
Both Greg Scarpa and Stefano Magaddino said when a new boss takes over, all of the captains officially lose their rank and the boss must choose to re-appoint them or appoint others in their place. We know that in most cases a boss will keep many if not most of the captains in their previous positions, but in terms of formal protocol it appears the entire leadership becomes a blank slate when a new boss is elected. Scarpa mentioned this to the FBI when Joe Colombo took over, while Magaddino was recorded explaining how Joe Bonanno's captains lost their official rank when Joe Bonanno was deposed.
The underboss position would follow the same protocol, as he operates at the will of the boss. We know Castellano held a formal meeting where Dellacroce was confirmed as his underboss even though he already held the position under Gambino. This was partly out of respect for Dellacroce but it would have also been traditional protocol.
The consigliere is different because it is traditionally elected by the membership and is not (directly) appointed by the boss. Whether he was joking or making an empty threat or not, this is why Gotti said he would rearrange the captains to vote Gallo out, as he couldn't demote him directly. It's also telling, as we know the entire membership is supposed to have a vote in who becomes boss and consigliere, but we've heard of examples where captains basically make the decision on behalf of their entire decina.
Back to the original point of the thread, that's a very good example of the finer politics within mafia leadership. Bosses like Gotti, Massino, and Scarfo were all bosses of families prone to violent factionalism and this factored into their decision to decentralize power and limit official authority when they were in prison. In contrast, Carmine Persico gave Vic Orena full authority to order murders, induct members, and I believe even promote/demote captains and underbosses and we can see that Orena used this as an opportunity to attempt a full takeover. Gotti, Massino, and Scarfo were sharp mafia politicians no matter what their shortcomings were and these decisions weren't made arbitrarily.