by B. » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:25 pm
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:56 pm
1 I think Schiro was pure Roccamenese but married a woman from Camporeale. Maybe I'm mistaken and you're correct. His grandfather was the former mayor of Roccamena in the 1840's I think.
2 The general takeaway is that the more things change the more they stay the same. Listening to the formal process of how membership and organizational issues were resolved in the snapshot we have of 1908 seems very congruent with the type of decisions the commission would have made in the 1960's: like ruling that a Family which makes a member is responsible for said member, or granting a Boss the authority and support to restructure a Family.
4 The duties the 1931 Commission became responsible for were inherited from bureaucratic predecessors. Similar to the SS becoming assigned to presidential protection and losing its national scope, only to be picked up by the FBN who lost out to the FBI. The government's always had a system in place to address interstate and federal crime. Whereas the mafia always had their system in place. Although it seems to have been watered down with each rendition, a form of simplification for scrutiny sake.
5 I think between 1900 and 1930, more communication was conducted early on through letters and as travel became more accessible, convenient and affordable more meetings were conducted. We do know that in 1904 Morello went to NOLA wearing a red bandanna around his neck which seemed to carry some symbolism to it.
6 Can anyone read those letters and still believe a "new organization" was created in 1931?
7 I guess we should ask ourselves- why did Morello explain the gran consiglio in light of the Constantino situation to Dispenza? Granted if wikipedia is correct Dispenza became boss during this same year, but it seems like Morello is chastising him for overstepping boundaries rather than explaining protocol to new boss. Could he have been washing his hands of it by laying claim to his being on the consiglio and thus unable to take part in the assemblea? Any other ideas/speculations?
8 Was it always a rule that a boss had to do the ceremonies? Caldarone in Sicily made no such claim and in fact stated it was to be conducted by the oldest man of honest who could attend. I do believe there was a tightening up, but if I recall correctly, Blood and Honor states that Bruno was initiated by Maggio, was that incorrect? I guess the conclusion we'll both reach is if the boss gives the OK and can't do it himself, he can designate for it to still be conducted by someone else.
1 - Just checked your article again and you said it was Schiro's mother who was from Camporeale. The article also confirms what you said about his paternal grandfather being the Roccamena mayor.
2 + 4 + 6 - Yep, in addition to confirming Gentile's pre-1931 terminology and account of the mafia's national structure, the Morello letters are a slam dunk that completely destroys the idea that these were loosely affiliated "Italian gangs" who were organized in 1931 or even in the 1920s. Not that most of us still believed that, but we have the highest-ranking member of the US mafia, Morello, discussing the mafia in highly-nuanced terms in the first decade of the 1900s that show how consistent the organization has been since its arrival to the US up until present day. Like we talked about earlier in this thread, the Appalachin-style meetings may well have been a continuation of the National Assembly and it's clear that the post-1931 Commission, with its voting system and select membership, was more a development of earlier systems than a "sudden" change in operation.
^ We can see that the mafia always had a system of "checks and balances" as well as a way of delegating authority to other leaders "below" the capo dei capi. Now, we know the mafia was prone to tyranny, but is that exclusive to the mafia? Both democracy and communism are prone to authoritarianism and tyranny, too, so it's not necessarily that these other ruling bodies like the Grand Consiglio and Assembly were just a "show", but tyranny and corruption have the potential to exist in every dang thing we do. Look at the way David ended up handling the Real Deal! But you also have people like Soliai who are the opposite and he knows I'm not kissing his ass.
5 - Well, now we know Morello also started the Bloods. What a guy, and to think he only had one fully-functional hand.
7 - Very good question. We know one of the functions of the consiglio / council within individual families was to decide the fate of members who had been in trouble. This is discussed by one of the San Jose informants (who give an account of one of these council meetings where they decided the fate of Peter Misuraca), Stefano LaTorre's son (who describes the "court" held to decide his father's fate), and depending on how you interpret some of what Gentile said, a consiglio was also held to handle a conflict in Pittsburgh. The individual family consiglio also had other functions (approving Gentile's transfer to SF and we know the St. Louis and Milwaukee councils would discuss "policy" with the boss), but one of the major functions was to decide whether or not a member should be killed, shelved, or given a pass.
^ The Grand Consiglio probably served in a similar capacity, but when it came to situations that affected the mafia nationally. If my interpretation of that letter is right, Constantino was a made member from another city who came to Chicago and upset the local leadership. That is a national issue, as it affected more than one family. Now, we don't know exactly how DiSpenza fits into the Grand Consiglio vs. the National Assembly, or how those two bodies would be involved, but we do know DiSpenza, who was at the very least a leading Chicago figure and probably the boss, overstepped his bounds in relation to these ruling bodies and Morello had to correct him. Given how minimal Morello's explanation is (he is basically just telling DiSpenza he made a mistake), we can assume DiSpenza was already familiar with the Grand Consiglio and National Assemblies given that Morello didn't walk him through the entire process and only clarified where DiSpenza erred.
8 - Along with Calderone saying the oldest member of the family presided over ceremonies in Catania, Nino Giuffre's 1980s ceremony in Caccamo was presided over by an elderly member who is not known to have held a rank, which lends itself to Calderone's comment. Not directly related, but Nick Stefanelli said at his 2000s initiation ceremony that the proposed members were inducted in order of their age, though he didn't indicate if it was oldest to youngest or vice versa. We know that age is not nearly as important in traditional mafia protocol as it's made out to be in pop culture, so these examples of age factoring into protocol stand out.
^ Bosses often did not officiate nor even attend induction ceremonies spanning generations and different families, though not sure about the early years. A reliable Gambino CW said that inductions must be officiated by two captains at the minimum, though we have examples as early as the 1950s of a single captain officiating a ceremony. We know the Springfield Genovese member who became a CW was inducted by two Genovese captains. Joey Merlino inducting members as a soldier is a major exception, so that's an outlier we can throw away. If the "two captain" rule goes back to the beginning of the mafia, that could tell us something about the reference to both Vito Cascio Ferro and his close associate Pasquale Enea. Maybe they were "two captains" (of which family, I won't guess) who inducted a member which would explain why Morello or Lupo was out of the loop (or "out of the Lupo"... terrible).
^ Joe Bonanno was def removed from the membership and doesn't seem to have presided over nor officiated most known ceremonies. However, a Bonanno CI (Frank "Fauney" D'Angelo") says his induction ceremony was presided over by Joe Bonanno. All of the identified attendees of this ceremony, including D'Angelo, his sponsor (unknown, but said to be from D'Angelo's Sicilian hometown), the host (Natale Evola), and Joe Bonanno were Castellammarese, so it's possible Joe Bonanno made an exception for a Castellammarese-centric induction. We know he favored his own.
^ And just a last side note, but Angelo Bruno was proposed for membership by Mike Maggio but offhand I believe most if not all accounts of Philly inductions were officiated by administration members if not the boss. Underboss Marco Reginelli inducted Rocco Scafidi. There is reason to speculate (but no way to presently confirm) that Michael Maggio may have been an earlier administration member, but whether that was at Bruno's time of induction (early 1950s), or ever, who knows.
[quote="Chris Christie" post_id=154943 time=1591322184 user_id=69]
1 I think Schiro was pure Roccamenese but married a woman from Camporeale. Maybe I'm mistaken and you're correct. His grandfather was the former mayor of Roccamena in the 1840's I think.
2 The general takeaway is that the more things change the more they stay the same. Listening to the formal process of how membership and organizational issues were resolved in the snapshot we have of 1908 seems very congruent with the type of decisions the commission would have made in the 1960's: like ruling that a Family which makes a member is responsible for said member, or granting a Boss the authority and support to restructure a Family.
4 The duties the 1931 Commission became responsible for were inherited from bureaucratic predecessors. Similar to the SS becoming assigned to presidential protection and losing its national scope, only to be picked up by the FBN who lost out to the FBI. The government's always had a system in place to address interstate and federal crime. Whereas the mafia always had their system in place. Although it seems to have been watered down with each rendition, a form of simplification for scrutiny sake.
5 I think between 1900 and 1930, more communication was conducted early on through letters and as travel became more accessible, convenient and affordable more meetings were conducted. We do know that in 1904 Morello went to NOLA wearing a red bandanna around his neck which seemed to carry some symbolism to it.
6 Can anyone read those letters and still believe a "new organization" was created in 1931?
7 I guess we should ask ourselves- why did Morello explain the gran consiglio in light of the Constantino situation to Dispenza? Granted if wikipedia is correct Dispenza became boss during this same year, but it seems like Morello is chastising him for overstepping boundaries rather than explaining protocol to new boss. Could he have been washing his hands of it by laying claim to his being on the consiglio and thus unable to take part in the assemblea? Any other ideas/speculations?
8 Was it always a rule that a boss had to do the ceremonies? Caldarone in Sicily made no such claim and in fact stated it was to be conducted by the oldest man of honest who could attend. I do believe there was a tightening up, but if I recall correctly, Blood and Honor states that Bruno was initiated by Maggio, was that incorrect? I guess the conclusion we'll both reach is if the boss gives the OK and can't do it himself, he can designate for it to still be conducted by someone else.
[/quote]
1 - Just checked your article again and you said it was Schiro's mother who was from Camporeale. The article also confirms what you said about his paternal grandfather being the Roccamena mayor.
2 + 4 + 6 - Yep, in addition to confirming Gentile's pre-1931 terminology and account of the mafia's national structure, the Morello letters are a slam dunk that completely destroys the idea that these were loosely affiliated "Italian gangs" who were organized in 1931 or even in the 1920s. Not that most of us still believed that, but we have the highest-ranking member of the US mafia, Morello, discussing the mafia in highly-nuanced terms in the first decade of the 1900s that show how consistent the organization has been since its arrival to the US up until present day. Like we talked about earlier in this thread, the Appalachin-style meetings may well have been a continuation of the National Assembly and it's clear that the post-1931 Commission, with its voting system and select membership, was more a development of earlier systems than a "sudden" change in operation.
^ We can see that the mafia always had a system of "checks and balances" as well as a way of delegating authority to other leaders "below" the capo dei capi. Now, we know the mafia was prone to tyranny, but is that exclusive to the mafia? Both democracy and communism are prone to authoritarianism and tyranny, too, so it's not necessarily that these other ruling bodies like the Grand Consiglio and Assembly were just a "show", but tyranny and corruption have the potential to exist in every dang thing we do. Look at the way David ended up handling the Real Deal! But you also have people like Soliai who are the opposite and he knows I'm not kissing his ass.
5 - Well, now we know Morello also started the Bloods. What a guy, and to think he only had one fully-functional hand.
7 - Very good question. We know one of the functions of the consiglio / council within individual families was to decide the fate of members who had been in trouble. This is discussed by one of the San Jose informants (who give an account of one of these council meetings where they decided the fate of Peter Misuraca), Stefano LaTorre's son (who describes the "court" held to decide his father's fate), and depending on how you interpret some of what Gentile said, a consiglio was also held to handle a conflict in Pittsburgh. The individual family consiglio also had other functions (approving Gentile's transfer to SF and we know the St. Louis and Milwaukee councils would discuss "policy" with the boss), but one of the major functions was to decide whether or not a member should be killed, shelved, or given a pass.
^ The Grand Consiglio probably served in a similar capacity, but when it came to situations that affected the mafia nationally. If my interpretation of that letter is right, Constantino was a made member from another city who came to Chicago and upset the local leadership. That is a national issue, as it affected more than one family. Now, we don't know exactly how DiSpenza fits into the Grand Consiglio vs. the National Assembly, or how those two bodies would be involved, but we do know DiSpenza, who was at the very least a leading Chicago figure and probably the boss, overstepped his bounds in relation to these ruling bodies and Morello had to correct him. Given how minimal Morello's explanation is (he is basically just telling DiSpenza he made a mistake), we can assume DiSpenza was already familiar with the Grand Consiglio and National Assemblies given that Morello didn't walk him through the entire process and only clarified where DiSpenza erred.
8 - Along with Calderone saying the oldest member of the family presided over ceremonies in Catania, Nino Giuffre's 1980s ceremony in Caccamo was presided over by an elderly member who is not known to have held a rank, which lends itself to Calderone's comment. Not directly related, but Nick Stefanelli said at his 2000s initiation ceremony that the proposed members were inducted in order of their age, though he didn't indicate if it was oldest to youngest or vice versa. We know that age is not nearly as important in traditional mafia protocol as it's made out to be in pop culture, so these examples of age factoring into protocol stand out.
^ Bosses often did not officiate nor even attend induction ceremonies spanning generations and different families, though not sure about the early years. A reliable Gambino CW said that inductions must be officiated by two captains at the minimum, though we have examples as early as the 1950s of a single captain officiating a ceremony. We know the Springfield Genovese member who became a CW was inducted by two Genovese captains. Joey Merlino inducting members as a soldier is a major exception, so that's an outlier we can throw away. If the "two captain" rule goes back to the beginning of the mafia, that could tell us something about the reference to both Vito Cascio Ferro and his close associate Pasquale Enea. Maybe they were "two captains" (of which family, I won't guess) who inducted a member which would explain why Morello or Lupo was out of the loop (or "out of the Lupo"... terrible).
^ Joe Bonanno was def removed from the membership and doesn't seem to have presided over nor officiated most known ceremonies. However, a Bonanno CI (Frank "Fauney" D'Angelo") says his induction ceremony was presided over by Joe Bonanno. All of the identified attendees of this ceremony, including D'Angelo, his sponsor (unknown, but said to be from D'Angelo's Sicilian hometown), the host (Natale Evola), and Joe Bonanno were Castellammarese, so it's possible Joe Bonanno made an exception for a Castellammarese-centric induction. We know he favored his own.
^ And just a last side note, but Angelo Bruno was proposed for membership by Mike Maggio but offhand I believe most if not all accounts of Philly inductions were officiated by administration members if not the boss. Underboss Marco Reginelli inducted Rocco Scafidi. There is reason to speculate (but no way to presently confirm) that Michael Maggio may have been an earlier administration member, but whether that was at Bruno's time of induction (early 1950s), or ever, who knows.