THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by B. » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:29 pm

It came up again in the Asaro trial when Vinny Asaro was promoted to captain in 2012.

Asaro explained to Gaspare Valenti that when Tommy DiFiore promoted him to captain, DiFiore then had to re-introduce Asaro to Bonventre as a captain, then Bonventre would be able to "spread the word."

Q - Then, "Vinny's going to be a skipper, and he introduced me to Jackie." What was your understanding of what had happened?
A - Introduction, that he was getting a promotion from soldier to captain.
Q- In organized crime, are there rules about introducing yourself?
A- Yes.
Q - Even if you're promoted?
A - Yes.
Q - Can you introduce yourself as a captain?
A - No.
Q - So when he said he was introduced to Jackie as a captain, what did you understand that to mean?
A - That Jackie was -- put the word out that he's a captain.

by B. » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:42 pm

B. wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 6:59 pm - Vitale confirms what other sources have reported about promotions, where a captain or administration member has to be re-introduced "all over again" by another member who has already been introduced to him with the new position. Like with membership itself, a captain or admin member isn't supposed to tell someone their rank and a third party is required to communicate this to another member. Vitale says this has to happen every time a member is promoted. So in short, a new underboss can't go up to a member (even if he already knows him as a member) and say "Hey, I'm the new underboss." Someone else who has already been introduced to him as underboss has to step in and say, "Hey Frank, I'd like you to meet Sal, he's the underboss." I assume this rule is commonly broken but I have seen other member sources mention it.

Joe Valachi also said there was third party protocol around how a ranking member is introduced, but his take was slightly different from Vitale:

So he's saying a member's rank must be communicated through a third party like Vitale, but unlike Vitale he says it is done outside of the presence of the ranking member. The fact that a Gambino leader like Scalise would do this with a Genovese member tells us it was more than just the Genovese family doing it during Valachi's time.

Vitale's account is similar enough that we can assume all of this goes back to the same original rule and may have changed slightly over the years.

by **HairyKnuckles** » Mon May 18, 2020 1:05 am

pharion wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 8:24 am On one of those proposed members sheets, one of the deceased listed I think was "Albert Chico." Does anyone know if this is the same person as "Alfred Chieco" ?
Alfred Chieco (DOB: 5/19/1913 ; DOD: 8/30/1988) was a Westchester/Bronx guy who helped hide Galante after Galante went on the run to avoid the 1958 narcotics indictment. I don't have anymore info on him.

I haven´t been able to identify this guy. All I know is that he passed in May 1986. So it´s not the guy in your post. The name is most likely butchered on that proposed list which makes this case a tough one.

by **pharion** » Sun May 17, 2020 8:24 am

On one of those proposed members sheets, one of the deceased listed I think was "Albert Chico." Does anyone know if this is the same person as "Alfred Chieco" ?
Alfred Chieco (DOB: 5/19/1913 ; DOD: 8/30/1988) was a Westchester/Bronx guy who helped hide Galante after Galante went on the run to avoid the 1958 narcotics indictment. I don't have anymore info on him.

by B. » Sun May 17, 2020 2:20 am

dack2001 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 6:14 am Within the framework of LCN, there is no way Burke was a free agent. LCN is built upon associates being "with" someone and belonging to a family. That's part of the power.

Yep, 100% on this point. It's not just to the mafia's benefit, but also Burke's benefit to be associated with a certain family.

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:27 am Great info on the Burke/Columbo connection guys. I do recall that in Wiseguy it mentions that the Columbo and Lucchese families had an "unprecedented" sit-down over who Burke would be with. But there is a lot of BS in that book I think and I don't see what's so unprecedented about 2 families sitting down over an associate, so I didn't pay it much mind. But it looks like there was something to that and who knows, maybe he was originally on record with the Columbos and was released to be with Vario after the meeting.

It's been a long time since I read Wiseguy. I should revisit, but if it does discuss a sitdown between the Colombos and Luccheses over Burke that makes sense given those two families are who the reliable sources say he was with. Two families sitting down over an associate is one of the more common reasons for sitdowns, so someone like Burke, whose street stature was beyond many made members, would def be a big deal.

by **CabriniGreen** » Fri May 15, 2020 3:19 am

The more I look at it, I think Sciascia might have wanted Consigliere, or maybe he felt more qualified for it than Graziano.
With multiple people seeing Graziano stoned, the Cotroni hit seems more likely the reason he was killed.

But I think it was used as justification. If Sciascia keeps his mouth shut, maybe nothing happens. I wonder what prompted him to tell Massino? Especially since it doesn't look like the Cotronis, or anyone up in Montreal made a beef.....

by **JeremyTheJew** » Wed May 13, 2020 1:47 pm

Extortion wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 1:45 pm
Bklyn21 wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 8:50 pm
Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:59 am Incredible thread. The anecdote about Vitale meeting with Rastelli at the park was interesting to me. Hard to imagine a boss fresh out of prison meeting with an associate like that and thanking him for participating in a triple murder lol but it was a different era. It just speaks to how big of a stink Asaro must have made about him, I guess Rusty probably wanted to meet Massino's guy but the main motivation for the meeting was this beef Asaro was making. Vinny is such a hothead.

Was Jimmy the Gent really on record as an associate with the Columbos? I always assumed he was with the Lucchese family.
I thought that was really interesting and weird that Jimmy Burke was on record with the Colombos . If he's correct about that who the hell was Burke with in the Colombo family ?
I dont think rastelli ever should have been boss. He was a hothead and was constantly in jail.

Where did he get his power from?? Bonanno loyalties?

by **Extortion** » Wed May 13, 2020 1:45 pm

Bklyn21 wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 8:50 pm
Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:59 am Incredible thread. The anecdote about Vitale meeting with Rastelli at the park was interesting to me. Hard to imagine a boss fresh out of prison meeting with an associate like that and thanking him for participating in a triple murder lol but it was a different era. It just speaks to how big of a stink Asaro must have made about him, I guess Rusty probably wanted to meet Massino's guy but the main motivation for the meeting was this beef Asaro was making. Vinny is such a hothead.

Was Jimmy the Gent really on record as an associate with the Columbos? I always assumed he was with the Lucchese family.
I thought that was really interesting and weird that Jimmy Burke was on record with the Colombos . If he's correct about that who the hell was Burke with in the Colombo family ?

I dont think rastelli ever should have been boss. He was a hothead and was constantly in jail.

by **JohnnySalami** » Wed May 13, 2020 1:15 pm

Btw these notes are tremendous insight on how things were operated during the massino era

by **JohnnySalami** » Wed May 13, 2020 1:13 pm

It ain’t a question of thought people involved in LCN do business with others of all families. You see it today for example the dubbed “east coast enterprise” had a arraigned of members/associates from multiple families

by **dack2001** » Wed May 13, 2020 6:14 am

Within the framework of LCN, there is no way Burke was a free agent. LCN is built upon associates being "with" someone and belonging to a family. That's part of the power. The question is asked where and with who did the guy first make his money....think back to Donnie Brasco for an example...that's one of the questions that would have decided where Burke goes. Reviewing the testimony and other accounts, it would reasonable to surmise there was a sit between the Luchese family and the Colombo family over which family Burke belonged with and the Lukes won the sit. That's why most know Burke as being "with" the Luchese family but some remember him as around the Colombos. Following where the Luftansa money flowed upwards, that's the most reasonable explanation.

by **Flushing** » Tue May 12, 2020 10:05 am

In light of all this it's possible that Burke was associated with all 5 families. Robert's lounge was a stone's throw from Don Pepe's, Ciro Perrones Genovese place.

Just throwing that out there. Burke's connections to the other 4 families are we'll documented at this point.

He was a total free agent.

by **Hired_Goonz** » Tue May 12, 2020 9:27 am

Great info on the Burke/Columbo connection guys. I do recall that in Wiseguy it mentions that the Columbo and Lucchese families had an "unprecedented" sit-down over who Burke would be with. But there is a lot of BS in that book I think and I don't see what's so unprecedented about 2 families sitting down over an associate, so I didn't pay it much mind. But it looks like there was something to that and who knows, maybe he was originally on record with the Columbos and was released to be with Vario after the meeting.

by **CabriniGreen** » Tue May 12, 2020 5:57 am

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:29 pm
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:22 pm If you get hung up on accuracy or even a realistic portrayal of OC than skip it. If you don't mind a little cheese it is worth a watch as it is entertaining and moves along pretty fast. Basically if you enjoyed Mobsters with Christian Slater, The Last Don 1&2, The Untouchables, Witness to the Mob and Boss of Bosses you should enjoy this series. The second season is much better than the first.

Pogo
awesome thanks. makes sense with those comparisons. ill eventually give it another spin

Hes right, it's actually not a bad show if you know nothing of the events. The problem is the real story is so compelling it's better than anything they could make up...

by **Angelo Santino** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:53 am

Riveting stuff, brother.

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Notes on Sal Vitale testimony (Asaro trial)

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