THE BLACK HAND FORUM

500YearReign wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:45 am 'Severio del George, a neighbor of the Riley family, said he has had four cars stolen in the last three years. He now contributes $250 a year to a residential association to hire a private security firm to patrol the streets.

Grouchy Sinatra wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:38 pm Einstein probably did have interesting things to say about Italians fleeing the old neighborhood.

Grouchy Sinatra wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:51 am

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:50 am

Grouchy Sinatra wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:42 am Why did so many Italians leave these neighborhoods for typical suburbs?

For a better life, same reason everyone else moves there.

So those that stay in these bastions of Italian American culture don't want a better life?

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:42 pm

Villain wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:30 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:59 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:16 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:07 pmYes, I see your point. My point was that even if the number is within reality, (which it was as you pointed out) it doesn't mean they are always successful. I just wanted to point out the fact that they do have bad debts or other problems for one reason or another.

I would also point out that the $1.5 million figure is based on a theoretical 2% average interest. If the average was 5%, for example, it would mean they only needed $600,000 on the street.

That's true. I think the percentage also depends on the Dollar amount of the loan. In the research of Chicago, for example, Sam DeStefano made many loans that were not huge & charged at least 5% a week or higher. Then, there was Messino making a HUGE Loan of $140,000 to some Contractors in 1964 because they couldn't get financing from a Bank and the percentage per week was only 1%. This was the case where Messino went to Jail with a couple of his collectors for 7 years.

I dont know how true is this but according to the feds at the time, during the 60s Battaglias Outfit, meaning the MP crew, loaned large sums of cash to many car companies, building supplies wholesale companies, clothing factories, food companies etc. I dont have any specifics regarding the numbers but the feds say that they had around million dollars on the street, which again is quite hard to confirm, although later they took over some of those same companies.

You know it's possible that they had about $1 million out there especially if some of that money came from the Administration? Accardo/Ricca had money invested in DeStefano so I would bet my bottom dollar they had some with Battaglia, maybe even half of that amount. Weren't they partnered with Battaglia on some of those same Companies? I do remember you telling me or sending me or posting some info about that situation.

bert wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:33 pm

Villain wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:30 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:59 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:16 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:07 pmYes, I see your point. My point was that even if the number is within reality, (which it was as you pointed out) it doesn't mean they are always successful. I just wanted to point out the fact that they do have bad debts or other problems for one reason or another.

I would also point out that the $1.5 million figure is based on a theoretical 2% average interest. If the average was 5%, for example, it would mean they only needed $600,000 on the street.

That's true. I think the percentage also depends on the Dollar amount of the loan. In the research of Chicago, for example, Sam DeStefano made many loans that were not huge & charged at least 5% a week or higher. Then, there was Messino making a HUGE Loan of $140,000 to some Contractors in 1964 because they couldn't get financing from a Bank and the percentage per week was only 1%. This was the case where Messino went to Jail with a couple of his collectors for 7 years.

I dont know how true is this but according to the feds at the time, during the 60s Battaglias Outfit, meaning the MP crew, loaned large sums of cash to many car companies, building supplies wholesale companies, clothing factories, food companies etc. I dont have any specifics regarding the numbers but the feds say that they had around million dollars on the street, which again is quite hard to confirm, although later they took over some of those same companies.

Those are the best loans, and the ones where a lender can make the most. They are the safest. The ones to gamblers are the most dangerous. I think it's mob history to make the loans you mention (to businesses) and after prohibition, it may have been one of their biggest ways to earn.

Villain wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:30 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:59 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:16 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:07 pmYes, I see your point. My point was that even if the number is within reality, (which it was as you pointed out) it doesn't mean they are always successful. I just wanted to point out the fact that they do have bad debts or other problems for one reason or another.

I would also point out that the $1.5 million figure is based on a theoretical 2% average interest. If the average was 5%, for example, it would mean they only needed $600,000 on the street.

That's true. I think the percentage also depends on the Dollar amount of the loan. In the research of Chicago, for example, Sam DeStefano made many loans that were not huge & charged at least 5% a week or higher. Then, there was Messino making a HUGE Loan of $140,000 to some Contractors in 1964 because they couldn't get financing from a Bank and the percentage per week was only 1%. This was the case where Messino went to Jail with a couple of his collectors for 7 years.

I dont know how true is this but according to the feds at the time, during the 60s Battaglias Outfit, meaning the MP crew, loaned large sums of cash to many car companies, building supplies wholesale companies, clothing factories, food companies etc. I dont have any specifics regarding the numbers but the feds say that they had around million dollars on the street, which again is quite hard to confirm, although later they took over some of those same companies.

Villain wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:30 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:59 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:16 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:07 pmYes, I see your point. My point was that even if the number is within reality, (which it was as you pointed out) it doesn't mean they are always successful. I just wanted to point out the fact that they do have bad debts or other problems for one reason or another.

I would also point out that the $1.5 million figure is based on a theoretical 2% average interest. If the average was 5%, for example, it would mean they only needed $600,000 on the street.

That's true. I think the percentage also depends on the Dollar amount of the loan. In the research of Chicago, for example, Sam DeStefano made many loans that were not huge & charged at least 5% a week or higher. Then, there was Messino making a HUGE Loan of $140,000 to some Contractors in 1964 because they couldn't get financing from a Bank and the percentage per week was only 1%. This was the case where Messino went to Jail with a couple of his collectors for 7 years.

I dont know how true is this but according to the feds at the time, during the 60s Battaglias Outfit, meaning the MP crew, loaned large sums of cash to many car companies, building supplies wholesale companies, clothing factories, food companies etc. I dont have any specifics regarding the numbers but the feds say that they had around million dollars on the street, which again is quite hard to confirm, although later they took over some of those same companies.

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:59 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:16 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:07 pmYes, I see your point. My point was that even if the number is within reality, (which it was as you pointed out) it doesn't mean they are always successful. I just wanted to point out the fact that they do have bad debts or other problems for one reason or another.

I would also point out that the $1.5 million figure is based on a theoretical 2% average interest. If the average was 5%, for example, it would mean they only needed $600,000 on the street.

That's true. I think the percentage also depends on the Dollar amount of the loan. In the research of Chicago, for example, Sam DeStefano made many loans that were not huge & charged at least 5% a week or higher. Then, there was Messino making a HUGE Loan of $140,000 to some Contractors in 1964 because they couldn't get financing from a Bank and the percentage per week was only 1%. This was the case where Messino went to Jail with a couple of his collectors for 7 years.

bert wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:20 pmYou're lying again. I was never on the old board, and I may have commented about Chinese gangs here (truthfully) you exaggerate what I said.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:18 pm

bert wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:23 pm Wiseguy I can see your point and maybe agree with you, but then you say stuff like this:

I realize your position has always been Italian gangsters are paupers without two nickels to rub together, and the Chinese are rule the world, but c'mon.

and lose all credibility and respect. You lie. Why is it that every post after a person disagrees with an opinion of yours, you lie and toss in insults? Maybe you don't believe what you say is the truth, so you compensate for it in that way.

I didn't lie or insult you. Underrating LCN figures has always been your MO, both on the old board and this one. Meanwhile, you've been overly impressed with the Chinese for whatever reason.

Anyway, my point is it isn't surprising that you would think $30,000 a week in interest, as part of a mob loanshark operation, would be a lie. If the claim was $300,000 a week, I could understand your scepticism.

bert wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:23 pm Wiseguy I can see your point and maybe agree with you, but then you say stuff like this:

I realize your position has always been Italian gangsters are paupers without two nickels to rub together, and the Chinese are rule the world, but c'mon.

and lose all credibility and respect. You lie. Why is it that every post after a person disagrees with an opinion of yours, you lie and toss in insults? Maybe you don't believe what you say is the truth, so you compensate for it in that way.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:16 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:07 pmYes, I see your point. My point was that even if the number is within reality, (which it was as you pointed out) it doesn't mean they are always successful. I just wanted to point out the fact that they do have bad debts or other problems for one reason or another.

I would also point out that the $1.5 million figure is based on a theoretical 2% average interest. If the average was 5%, for example, it would mean they only needed $600,000 on the street.