Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

Post a reply

Confirmation code
Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive.

BBCode is OFF
Smilies are OFF

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Angelo Santino » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:20 pm

JCB1977 wrote:Now that we established that Tony Grosso was NOT an associate and operated independently, how big was the Colcurcio gambling organization in Seattle? I know the family had strip clubs, but what other rackets did they get involved in?
Money laundering, local political corruption, prostitution, the FBI tried unsuccessfully to try them with murder.

The Sica brothers in California were also independents like Grosso. There was also a crew of brothers in NJ, some later got made. The Lanzettis of Philadelphia.

For a time, there was a "second" LA crime family. After Fratianno turned informant, Mike Rizzitello was ostracized by LA so was granted sanction by Dellacroce to run his own interests. It was shortlived but it also revealed that Milano didn't use a ceremony. Fiato claims it was as simple as 'You want him in, he's in."

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Italianheritage » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:43 pm

JCB1977 wrote:
Lou_Para wrote:I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.

Hey Lou,

I agree 100% and it has been confirmed at both of his trials as well as the trial of Joe Sica back in 1975. I don't argue with Italian Haritage, there is no point if you catch my drift.

EVERYBODY from the Pittsburgh/Youngstown/Cleveland area knows that TG was independent of LCN and that was approved by Amato/LaRocca as long as TG shared the political clout that he had. It makes me laugh that people say Bobby I is made...he enjoyed his own operation without the bullshit LCN brings. Anyhow Lou, don't even waste your breath explaining anything to Italian Haritage, not worth your time.
Grosso was a part of the PGH mob. Someone does not need to be made in order to be a part of the mob, or associated with a mob family.

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by JCB1977 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:20 pm

Now that we established that Tony Grosso was NOT an associate and operated independently, how big was the Colcurcio gambling organization in Seattle? I know the family had strip clubs, but what other rackets did they get involved in?

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Italianheritage » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:37 am

Lou_Para wrote:I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.
Grosso was not "made" but he was an associate of the PGH mob, so therefore he was connected.

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Angelo Santino » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:55 pm

So apart from some major national gambling operators, the Volpe bros of Wilmderding got their start separately correct? Not wanting to toe the line with Bazzano this lead to a dispute. After Amato took over he made peace and let them also function independently. Although some later got made in the 60's?

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by JCB1977 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:11 pm

Grosso had the entire city of Pittsburgh, not just the Hill. The Hill District was just a working class section of Pittsburgh, the African Americans flooded the area in record numbers after the collapse of the steel industry. Grosso was arguably the largest illegal gambling operation in the country. Here's a few nice piece on him:


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 08,4095303


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 16,7432452

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/24822162/


https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitiz ... 7NCJRS.pdf (1975-76) PA Report on OC

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Angelo Santino » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:36 pm

JCB1977 wrote:
Lou_Para wrote:Check out this link that outlines singer Lena Horne's connection to Pittsburgh's Hill District .
It contains some cool info about her father,(a pretty big deal in the underworld), as well as some basic stuff about the black rackets and legit businesses of the day.

https://sites.google.com/site/pittsburg ... lena-horne
Fantastic article, thanks for sharing. Lou, what do you think about Junior on that new reality show Godfather of Pittsburgh? Also, do you have photos of Salvatore & Eugene Williams? Pm me buddy, thanks.
Agreed.

I was thinking of William "Gus" Greenlee. He was the black kingpin of the Hill, same area TG (I'll use that) operated in.

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by JCB1977 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:29 pm

Lou_Para wrote:Check out this link that outlines singer Lena Horne's connection to Pittsburgh's Hill District .
It contains some cool info about her father,(a pretty big deal in the underworld), as well as some basic stuff about the black rackets and legit businesses of the day.

https://sites.google.com/site/pittsburg ... lena-horne
Fantastic article, thanks for sharing. Lou, what do you think about Junior on that new reality show Godfather of Pittsburgh? Also, do you have photos of Salvatore & Eugene Williams? Pm me buddy, thanks.

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by JCB1977 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:25 pm

Lou_Para wrote:I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.

Hey Lou,

I agree 100% and it has been confirmed at both of his trials as well as the trial of Joe Sica back in 1975. I don't argue with Italian Haritage, there is no point if you catch my drift.

EVERYBODY from the Pittsburgh/Youngstown/Cleveland area knows that TG was independent of LCN and that was approved by Amato/LaRocca as long as TG shared the political clout that he had. It makes me laugh that people say Bobby I is made...he enjoyed his own operation without the bullshit LCN brings. Anyhow Lou, don't even waste your breath explaining anything to Italian Haritage, not worth your time.

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Lou_Para » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:24 pm

Check out this link that outlines singer Lena Horne's connection to Pittsburgh's Hill District .
It contains some cool info about her father,(a pretty big deal in the underworld), as well as some basic stuff about the black rackets and legit businesses of the day.

https://sites.google.com/site/pittsburg ... lena-horne

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Angelo Santino » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:46 pm

Lou_Para wrote:I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.
From what I've found, and I'm not even close to the level JCB and yourself are on this era, those guys from the Hill were national independent operators. They laid off extra business to the mob in a mutually beneficial relationship. If Amato or La Rocca were to have put pressure on Grosso/I, nothing would have stopped them from moving elsewhere and still being able to run a national gambling ring. And had that happened, Amato and La Rocca would have been financially impacted in the blowback.

It's amazing the Hill didn't carry on, I guess too many blacks moved in there in the 20's and white flight occurred sending the I-tals eastward, there was a black crime boss who ran bootlegging and speakeasies in the Hill in the 20's and 30's. Go back in time 20 years and Wylie Avenue was all Catanzaresi, now it's a stadium. :cry:

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Lou_Para » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:23 pm

I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by JCB1977 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:19 am

Italianheritage wrote:
JCB1977 wrote:No they did not and no he didn't kick up. That is widely known. The people that assumed control over his organization were the Williams brothers and Bobby Iannelli. Go read the Pennsylvania Crime Commission Reports from 1970's through 1990 and look up his case law files.

I'm done speaking about this and I will not debate it with you, we've gone through this old song and dance, so please don't derail the thread. If you want to contribute pertinent information about the subject, I have no gripes.
You're contradicting yourself.

The reports can claim all they want that he wasn't connected to the PGH mob but everyone both people who were connected to the PGH mob, or just connected to Grosso and who lived in PGH knows that he was connected to the PGH mob, and that the PGH mob did take some of his earnings as that's how it worked.

Since you are the expert on the topic, I'll take your word. Thanks for clearing that up, you should write a book.

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by Italianheritage » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:24 am

JCB1977 wrote:No they did not and no he didn't kick up. That is widely known. The people that assumed control over his organization were the Williams brothers and Bobby Iannelli. Go read the Pennsylvania Crime Commission Reports from 1970's through 1990 and look up his case law files.

I'm done speaking about this and I will not debate it with you, we've gone through this old song and dance, so please don't derail the thread. If you want to contribute pertinent information about the subject, I have no gripes.
You're contradicting yourself.

The reports can claim all they want that he wasn't connected to the PGH mob but everyone both people who were connected to the PGH mob, or just connected to Grosso and who lived in PGH knows that he was connected to the PGH mob, and that the PGH mob did take some of his earnings as that's how it worked.

Re: Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

by JCB1977 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:31 pm

No they did not and no he didn't kick up. That is widely known. The people that assumed control over his organization were the Williams brothers and Bobby Iannelli. Go read the Pennsylvania Crime Commission Reports from 1970's through 1990 and look up his case law files.

I'm done speaking about this and I will not debate it with you, we've gone through this old song and dance, so please don't derail the thread. If you want to contribute pertinent information about the subject, I have no gripes.

Top