by Angelo Santino » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:59 pm
B. wrote:Chris Christie wrote:B. wrote:One of the memorable things about Valachi's telling of his making ceremony is the finger game which determined who his compare, or godfather was, which in this case was Joe Bonanno (though JB denies it, I believe Valachi). Valachi was originally a Gagliano associate and the families were temporarily acting as one during the war, so Valachi ended up working directly for Maranzano and was considered part of that group for all intents and purposes. So with that in mind it's not too weird that Valachi would end up with a compare who was from a different family than the one that proposed him.
So what exactly is a compare or godfather in this context? It's well-known how a proposed member is sponsored by a member, sometimes two, and the sponsor then becomes responsible for the new member. The new member also reports to a captain or someone, so that is who he would theoretically go to if he had a problem. So what use is a compare? If Valachi was telling the truth about Bonanno, Bonanno either lied in order to distance himself from a "rat" like Valachi or he simply didn't remember because Bonanno's life was an absolute tornado of changes at this time. If Valachi had stayed with the Bonannos, maybe he would have had some kind of arrangement with Joe Bonanno, I don't know.
But that's not the only time it's come up. When Rocco Scafidi was made, his sponsor was his uncle Joe Scafidi, who was also his captain. Scafidi's father Tom was also a captain at this time but was not the sponsor. Scafidi's godfather at the ceremony ended up being Antonio Pollina, who was captain of a separate crew. We learn a bit more, though, because Scafidi describes in a wiretap how he would ask Pollina for help when he needed it. So you have Scafidi, who had his own captain that sponsored him, directly consulting another captain, who had been named his godfather during a making ceremony.
Are there any other examples of this and has any kind of explanation ever come up for it? We know how the word compare is typically used among wiseguys and Italians in general, but there does seem to be something to this "unofficial" role.
In non-OC Italian culture derives from the Roman Catholic practice, typically it's a father's friend who attends the baptism of his child and becomes a "second father." I have a Godfather and the way it works is, say my parents died and I was still a minor, I would probably be adopted by him before I was sent to live with other blood relatives. It's a cultural/religious practice that was bastardized by the Mafia and the original tradition inverted into an organized crime custom, same thing with "honor" "Family" and the other buzz words. It's not a position or rank but part of the sub-culture or at least it was. It seems like one of those customs that died out with modernization. It exists in the form of a "rabbi" as they call someone who steps up to protect someone else from repercussion: "He's got a rabbi." Maybe this helps??
Thanks... I'm definitely familiar with the normal Catholic idea of a godfather/godmother, but here we have two prominent east coast families using their own twist on the idea twenty years apart in different cities, yet it doesn't seem to have any obvious function and isn't normally mentioned in most reports on making ceremonies.
Your last sentence did make me think, though. It's the sponsor who steps up and theoretically puts his reputation and life on the line to bring the new guy in (side note: are there any examples of a sponsor actually being killed because of the new member's actions? seems the sponsor is expected to kill the member they sponsored, if anything), and a randomly chosen compare in addition to this like Bonanno and Pollina couldn't be expected to be held accountable for some guy they may barely even know.
I am thinking the original purpose may have been to have someone unbiased who the member could go to if needed. Something like a more informal consigliere role who isn't necessarily a friend or enemy?
Would be interesting if this was just something Maranzano, a top boss back in Sicily,
used in the ceremony because it was used in Sicilian (or even just Castellammare) initiations and he carried that over to NY, or if it was something the other American families were actively doing, or both. Too many unanswerable questions.
Philly could have simply gotten it from Sicily as well and didn't stop doing it until after most of the other American families. One thing to consider is that both Sabella and Maranzano were from Castellammare.
Despite it's corrupt reality, the mafia has a series of checks and balances so someone doesn't obtain too much power. So the idea of an arbitrary go-to guy doesn't strike me as obtuse, this method occurred even if it doesn't have a formal name for it.
Maranzano's ceremony is something we'll never know but I'm sure you read Calderone, the ceremony deviates ever slow slightly. The finger is cut, sometimes it is picked, sometimes a saint card is used, other times just a piece of paper. One family used a gold needle, another with a thorn. But the general correlations between Sicilian towns with each other and American cities with each other, they are about 80% simpatico with one another. (I'm not including the quickie ceremonies here: Mike Rizzi in a car or Previte being told he's made or any of that confusing shit in Chicago).
One thing that I always remembered was a quote from Calderone's book: "If someone is good enough to be a member, they are good enough to represent it." Which I interpretted as: the mafia is very selective in its members (in theory) and those chosen are the most honorable (*allegedly), so each member acts on a sort of ritual of justifying what they do by adhering to the unspoken code, as it is their right since they were the cream of the crop to join. "Honor, loyalty, family" are positive terms that people gravitate to, even evil people. And in the mafia we've seen people justify things such as murder, robbery, extortion, revenge killings in honorable ways, showing loyalty etc. But if you were to ask Scarfo and then Bruno and then Joe Bonanno to define loyalty, you'd get three different answers... As it relates to ceremonies, a boss can do what he wants (within reason). Some might be more traditional, others might be "fuck it, let's get it over with."
Edit: The English version of Calderone's book was translated: "If someone is good enough to join, they are good enough to become boss." It doesn't conjure the same meaning as the Italian version but it's not wrong at all. The mindset is the same in America. There's been fast risers who've become administration within five years of being admitted while some members have been in 25+ plus years. Goes back to the mindset that only the best are being admitted.
[quote="B."][quote="Chris Christie"][quote="B."]One of the memorable things about Valachi's telling of his making ceremony is the finger game which determined who his compare, or godfather was, which in this case was Joe Bonanno (though JB denies it, I believe Valachi). Valachi was originally a Gagliano associate and the families were temporarily acting as one during the war, so Valachi ended up working directly for Maranzano and was considered part of that group for all intents and purposes. So with that in mind it's not too weird that Valachi would end up with a compare who was from a different family than the one that proposed him.
So what exactly is a compare or godfather in this context? It's well-known how a proposed member is sponsored by a member, sometimes two, and the sponsor then becomes responsible for the new member. The new member also reports to a captain or someone, so that is who he would theoretically go to if he had a problem. So what use is a compare? If Valachi was telling the truth about Bonanno, Bonanno either lied in order to distance himself from a "rat" like Valachi or he simply didn't remember because Bonanno's life was an absolute tornado of changes at this time. If Valachi had stayed with the Bonannos, maybe he would have had some kind of arrangement with Joe Bonanno, I don't know.
But that's not the only time it's come up. When Rocco Scafidi was made, his sponsor was his uncle Joe Scafidi, who was also his captain. Scafidi's father Tom was also a captain at this time but was not the sponsor. Scafidi's godfather at the ceremony ended up being Antonio Pollina, who was captain of a separate crew. We learn a bit more, though, because Scafidi describes in a wiretap how he would ask Pollina for help when he needed it. So you have Scafidi, who had his own captain that sponsored him, directly consulting another captain, who had been named his godfather during a making ceremony.
Are there any other examples of this and has any kind of explanation ever come up for it? We know how the word compare is typically used among wiseguys and Italians in general, but there does seem to be something to this "unofficial" role.[/quote]
In non-OC Italian culture derives from the Roman Catholic practice, typically it's a father's friend who attends the baptism of his child and becomes a "second father." I have a Godfather and the way it works is, say my parents died and I was still a minor, I would probably be adopted by him before I was sent to live with other blood relatives. It's a cultural/religious practice that was bastardized by the Mafia and the original tradition inverted into an organized crime custom, same thing with "honor" "Family" and the other buzz words. It's not a position or rank but part of the sub-culture or at least it was. It seems like one of those customs that died out with modernization. It exists in the form of a "rabbi" as they call someone who steps up to protect someone else from repercussion: "He's got a rabbi." Maybe this helps??[/quote]
Thanks... I'm definitely familiar with the normal Catholic idea of a godfather/godmother, but here we have two prominent east coast families using their own twist on the idea twenty years apart in different cities, yet it doesn't seem to have any obvious function and isn't normally mentioned in most reports on making ceremonies.
Your last sentence did make me think, though. It's the sponsor who steps up and theoretically puts his reputation and life on the line to bring the new guy in (side note: are there any examples of a sponsor actually being killed because of the new member's actions? seems the sponsor is expected to kill the member they sponsored, if anything), and a randomly chosen compare in addition to this like Bonanno and Pollina couldn't be expected to be held accountable for some guy they may barely even know.[b] I am thinking the original purpose may have been to have someone unbiased who the member could go to if needed. Something like a more informal consigliere role who isn't necessarily a friend or enemy?
[/b]
Would be interesting if this was just something Maranzano, a top boss back in Sicily, [b]used in the ceremony because it was used in Sicilian (or even just Castellammare) initiations and he carried that over to NY, or if it was something the other American families were actively doing, or both. Too many unanswerable questions.[/b]
Philly could have simply gotten it from Sicily as well and didn't stop doing it until after most of the other American families. One thing to consider is that both Sabella and Maranzano were from Castellammare.[/quote]
Despite it's corrupt reality, the mafia has a series of checks and balances so someone doesn't obtain too much power. So the idea of an arbitrary go-to guy doesn't strike me as obtuse, this method occurred even if it doesn't have a formal name for it.
Maranzano's ceremony is something we'll never know but I'm sure you read Calderone, the ceremony deviates ever slow slightly. The finger is cut, sometimes it is picked, sometimes a saint card is used, other times just a piece of paper. One family used a gold needle, another with a thorn. But the general correlations between Sicilian towns with each other and American cities with each other, they are about 80% simpatico with one another. (I'm not including the quickie ceremonies here: Mike Rizzi in a car or Previte being told he's made or any of that confusing shit in Chicago).
One thing that I always remembered was a quote from Calderone's book: "If someone is good enough to be a member, they are good enough to represent it." Which I interpretted as: the mafia is very selective in its members (in theory) and those chosen are the most honorable (*allegedly), so each member acts on a sort of ritual of justifying what they do by adhering to the unspoken code, as it is their right since they were the cream of the crop to join. "Honor, loyalty, family" are positive terms that people gravitate to, even evil people. And in the mafia we've seen people justify things such as murder, robbery, extortion, revenge killings in honorable ways, showing loyalty etc. But if you were to ask Scarfo and then Bruno and then Joe Bonanno to define loyalty, you'd get three different answers... As it relates to ceremonies, a boss can do what he wants (within reason). Some might be more traditional, others might be "fuck it, let's get it over with."
Edit: The English version of Calderone's book was translated: "If someone is good enough to join, they are good enough to become boss." It doesn't conjure the same meaning as the Italian version but it's not wrong at all. The mindset is the same in America. There's been fast risers who've become administration within five years of being admitted while some members have been in 25+ plus years. Goes back to the mindset that only the best are being admitted.