Relations between the Mafias

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Re: Relations between the Mafias

by scagghiuni » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:00 am

CabriniGreen wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:26 pm So they condemned him to death, but didnt issue a hit specifically........ Interesting...
a similar hit in italy nowadays would be litterally a suicide, these times ended in the early '90, just to speak 700 organized crime relatged murders in 1991, 50 at most the latest years, imagine a sensational hit like capaci slaughters 'corleonesi' style, it's unthinkable today

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:37 am

I think the counterfeit racket is very underrated...

Imagine giving a criminal gangs, complete control over the production of, let's say.... Air Jordans... not all of Nike.. JUST Air Jordans... How much is that worth?

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:30 am

On the Saviano book...
@Chris Christie

When you say there were no current names mentioned... do you mean for the time the book came out in 2008?

It seemed pretty current for the time, and I routinely am able to type in Nuvoletta-Polverino, Licciarddi, Mallardo, Mazzarella, Moccia, many Naples clans into my phone, go to News... and Voila!!

Innumerable articles on all these clans, STILL very active today.....

To me Saviano was a catalyst. Sure, many writers maybe wrote about the same things, but they were unable or incapable of making the EMOTIONAL impact Savianos book made.

He has the fucking Mayor blaming Gomorrah for
the crime rates!!! So in a way, he definitely has had an effect on public perception.....

Also, cosa nostra knows who all these people are and vice versa..... these guys dont need to gather in a circle, hold hands, chant, and burn a saint to recognize each other and do business...

I honestly, really dont believe its that serious...

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:26 pm

So they condemned him to death, but didnt issue a hit specifically........ Interesting...

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by Angelo Santino » Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:37 am

Mafia Republic by John Dickie is the only other one that I can think of that's published in English. If you're not limited by that there's no shortage of books about the camorra, past and present in Italian.

I wiki'd Saviano for the hell of it and this is what it says:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Saviano
On October 14, 2008, there was news of a possible assassination attempt on Roberto Saviano. A police inspector of the Anti-Mafia Investigation Department (DIA) of Milan informed the DDA that the pentito, Carmine Schiavone (cousin of boss Francesco Schiavone, aka Sandokan), had informed him of a plan, already in operation, to kill the writer and his bodyguards before Christmas through a spectacular attack on the highway between Rome and Naples[32] in the style of Capaci. Yet, when interrogated by magistrates, Carmine Schiavone denied knowing about a plan hatched by the Casalesi to kill Saviano, provoking the writer's immediate response: "It's obvious that he'd say this; if he were to talk [about the plan], it would mean implicitly admitting to still having connections with organized crime". In the end the district attorney heading the investigation requested and obtained dismissal of the case after the news was revealed to be unfounded. Carmine Schiavone denied knowing anything about the attack but confirmed that Saviano was condemned to death by the Casalese clan.[33]

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:07 am

The Casalesi have the same type of Masonic ties... I'm not sure about the other Naples clans... probably the Nuvolettas for sure.....

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:04 am

I think it was pretty current for the time it came out.... although a lot of it was kind of a history lesson for Naples OC......

For example, I'm pretty sure the Cavas and Grazianos STILL hate each other.....lol

The Nuvolettas would have been considered Corleonesi, and yet their clan is still active today, while I'm not sure of the status of the " Corleonesi" faction currently, the whole affair with Leandro Greco has Palermo the center of mafia politics again. He ( Saviano) mentioned the Polverinos being a " sub- clan" , clearly they evolved over the years...

The Nuvoletta-Polverinos are basically the same as say... the Piromalli- Mole.. with the Mole and Polverinos being the Muscle-/ narcotics arm, the Piromalli Nuvolettas are the controllers of the " Criminal holding company", the financial power. You see this same thing repeated over and over with clans. I think it's what hurt the Inzerillos, I dont know who thier military arm was....




Maybe the young, center city pushers might like the notoriety, but not clans like the Nuvolettas, Mazzarellas, Moccia, the Casalesi families....They have contacts with the government, the publicity would hurt I think.....

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:48 am

Really? What other authors? Or books... I need something new to read... seriously, lol

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by Angelo Santino » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:30 am

CabriniGreen wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:55 am
Chris Christie wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:20 pm
scagghiuni wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:10 pm
Bklyn21 wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:00 pm
scagghiuni wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:58 am they are one and the same since the beginning, before italy unification when sicily, calabria and naples where the two sicilies kingdom under the bourbons, cosa nostra/ndrangheta/camorra are just regional nicknames
I thought it was Just Cosa Nostra and Ndrangheta that are one and the same group with The Cammorra and SCU being totally separate and operating in a totally different manner then LCN Ndrangheta. The Cammorra has no pyramidal structure and no mandamenti , No dome , No cupola, No boss or Commission ! The Cammorra is Like a bunch of gangs , Just clans with a BOSS who are constantly battling each other .
the real camorra are not the juvenile gangs but the casalesi, the contini-licciardi, the polverino-nuvoletta etc. the scu is also the same thing, it changes the name but just a regional one, there are several informants who said they are all the same thing
What is your opinion on Saviano? I'm beginning to suspect that he uses the "under carabinieri protection" statement as a marketing ploy, I didn't read anything that revealing. It certainly wasn't the pentagon papers. Just curious. He gave an interview and explained the modern camorra, saying that there's no semblance of a criminal fraternity like the mafia, instead its akin to cartels and that someone can move to Naples and just start a camorra gang (technically).

I need to freshen up Naples post 1960. There was the NCO and the NF (wasn't that allied with the Mafia?). When you say "real camorra" and cite the casalesi, Contini-Licciardi and Polverino-Nuvoletta, what do you mean by that? Are you stating that they have a mutual recognition of each other or are you saying they have a criminal association among them? Based on what I've read and gathered would I be wrong to equate what passes for the camorra to localized Naples versions of Mexican Cartels?
Saviano DOES, or I should say DID use it as marketing ploy, but he doesnt need any ploy today....

That movie Immortalle opened as the biggest thing in Italy...... When you saw him speaking about the " Baby gangs", he had a movie coming out about baby gangsters called Piranhas.... he has the Amazon show 000 coming...... hes a powerhouse into himself now over there....

NOW, none of that really takes away from the info in the book, it all comes from investigations......

There were a couple things I found interesting....

1. The fact that Versace, Valentino, Prada, all those high end brands have all thier merchandise made in Mafia controlled sweatshops, AND THEY KNOW! Not only know, but SEND representatives to negotiate with them.... And no one ever complains.... They would be giving up thier source of cheap labor...

2. The fact the Nuvolettas let regular working class people INVEST in drug shipments like it was a regular stock, this kinda blew my mind.....

3. Some clans like say the Amato- Pagano DO act like a drug cartel... they import into Spain.. and sell it to whomever.....

The Polverinos are pretty much a hashish cartel, yet they are part of the Nuvoletta clan, who are mostly white collar...


4. I think the Naples clans definitely dominate the Waste disposal and Cement industries, the counterfeit markets, and they have made big inroads into gambling....
I'm not disputing that it is interesting. In fact, it serves as a great showcase of how organized crime affects Naples in the 2000's. But what I'm saying is that his book didn't break the news on any of these activities. It's not like his book lead to the Italian government stopping in its tracks and saying: we didn't know this was going on, we're mounting investigations now! There are no names of current people mentioned, it's a what's what of Naples OC that's only surprising to people who aren't from there. So again I'm not sure what they would want to kill him over, he's not the only author to write about the subject and quite honestly, Neapolitan gangsters enjoy the glamorization they'd be more inclined to buy him dinner. Other authors are going around covering the exact same topic he is, some of them actually have inside connections providing information. Looking at their treatment of press/authors past and present, Saviano's alleged death threats appears to be the exception. Am I mistaken?

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:55 am

Chris Christie wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:20 pm
scagghiuni wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:10 pm
Bklyn21 wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:00 pm
scagghiuni wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:58 am they are one and the same since the beginning, before italy unification when sicily, calabria and naples where the two sicilies kingdom under the bourbons, cosa nostra/ndrangheta/camorra are just regional nicknames
I thought it was Just Cosa Nostra and Ndrangheta that are one and the same group with The Cammorra and SCU being totally separate and operating in a totally different manner then LCN Ndrangheta. The Cammorra has no pyramidal structure and no mandamenti , No dome , No cupola, No boss or Commission ! The Cammorra is Like a bunch of gangs , Just clans with a BOSS who are constantly battling each other .
the real camorra are not the juvenile gangs but the casalesi, the contini-licciardi, the polverino-nuvoletta etc. the scu is also the same thing, it changes the name but just a regional one, there are several informants who said they are all the same thing
What is your opinion on Saviano? I'm beginning to suspect that he uses the "under carabinieri protection" statement as a marketing ploy, I didn't read anything that revealing. It certainly wasn't the pentagon papers. Just curious. He gave an interview and explained the modern camorra, saying that there's no semblance of a criminal fraternity like the mafia, instead its akin to cartels and that someone can move to Naples and just start a camorra gang (technically).

I need to freshen up Naples post 1960. There was the NCO and the NF (wasn't that allied with the Mafia?). When you say "real camorra" and cite the casalesi, Contini-Licciardi and Polverino-Nuvoletta, what do you mean by that? Are you stating that they have a mutual recognition of each other or are you saying they have a criminal association among them? Based on what I've read and gathered would I be wrong to equate what passes for the camorra to localized Naples versions of Mexican Cartels?
Saviano DOES, or I should say DID use it as marketing ploy, but he doesnt need any ploy today....

That movie Immortalle opened as the biggest thing in Italy...... When you saw him speaking about the " Baby gangs", he had a movie coming out about baby gangsters called Piranhas.... he has the Amazon show 000 coming...... hes a powerhouse into himself now over there....

NOW, none of that really takes away from the info in the book, it all comes from investigations......

There were a couple things I found interesting....

1. The fact that Versace, Valentino, Prada, all those high end brands have all thier merchandise made in Mafia controlled sweatshops, AND THEY KNOW! Not only know, but SEND representatives to negotiate with them.... And no one ever complains.... They would be giving up thier source of cheap labor...

2. The fact the Nuvolettas let regular working class people INVEST in drug shipments like it was a regular stock, this kinda blew my mind.....

3. Some clans like say the Amato- Pagano DO act like a drug cartel... they import into Spain.. and sell it to whomever.....

The Polverinos are pretty much a hashish cartel, yet they are part of the Nuvoletta clan, who are mostly white collar...


4. I think the Naples clans definitely dominate the Waste disposal and Cement industries, the counterfeit markets, and they have made big inroads into gambling....

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by NYNighthawk » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:03 am

No one is going to do a commission meeting these days. Too many videos - ez pass toll records - informants - wiretaps, etc. If something needed to be discussed at that level- the Boos would send a message to other families via a consigliere or top capo and get a consensus.

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:58 am

Mafie, the map
of
Brescia infiltrations
Mafie, the map of Brescia infiltrations
Mafie, the map of Brescia infiltrations
Cinzia Reboni . 03/05/2019


Cinzia Reboni There are at least 22 families of Italian organized crime with more or less organic ties and rooted with the Bresciano.

The sphere of influence of the mafia, 'ndrangheta camorra and, to a lesser extent, the Sacred Crown united, touches fifteen countries of the province, but 5 others are supervised special because they host suspicious activities, that is managed by presumed bosses.

This is what emerges from the intersection between the research data of the Crime-Observatory and the report of the Parliamentary Commission on the phenomenon of mafias and other criminal associations, including those of foreign origin.

The two reports explore - based on the Dia's investigations and processes - the evolution of the phenomenon from 2017 to the last months of 2018. In Lombardy the province of Brescia is the only one - with that of Milan - where the presence of all four Made in Italy mafia-type criminal organizations has been proven to be more or less rarefied.

This is one of the most disturbing aspects, which confirms how the recent seizure of assets for 15 million to the entrepreneur Rosario Marchese di Lonato - considered by Dia contiguous to the Mafioso group Rinzivillo - is nothing but the tip of an iceberg, or rather of the dome.

However, according to the reports of Cross and the Commission, Brescia is not a land for the conquest of clans, but a place for the investment of capital, the fruit of the profits of illicit activities managed in Italy and abroad. In essence, mafia organizations tend to keep away from prostitution, usury, drug trafficking and extortion so as not to compromise apparently legal businesses such as shops, businesses and nightclubs, open to make their assets bear fruit.

To use a financial metaphor, Brescia is one of the "safes" of the clans, the dirty money washing machine. If they are really forced to intervene, the clans use modern tools so to speak, in line with the social era: defamatory dossiers in place of incendiary attacks, retaliatory lawsuits instead of ambushes.

IN BRESCIANO in short the mafia has evolved using even the democratic tools in a distorted way. To manage his business through infiltrations in the productive-financial fabric he no longer relies on violence, but on subtle forms of persuasion: instead of showing blood, he fears it to obtain the same result, or subjection and omerta.

The threats are almost never explicit, but the forms of pressure exerted by digging into the private life and the employment sphere of the people to be conditioned produce the same effects.

An osmosis between the clan and the Brescia area also emerges from the Dia report. Among the operations conducted last year stands out for example "Flowers of the Night of San Vito" of the State police of Milan, which led to the arrest of 378 people held responsible for mafia-type association aimed at trafficking drugs and weapons and other serious offenses. Among the investigated, 160 were of Calabrian origin, almost all domiciled in the provinces of Como and Brescia.


Over the years the investigations have traced the presence of premises managed by the 'Ndrangheta in Brescia and Lumezzane. In May 2018, with the «Barbarossa» operation, the carabinieri arrested 26 people recently resident in Brescia, one of whom had participated in a series of extortion activities on behalf of the Reggina Pesce family from Rosarno. And, again last year, a tax fraud was discovered for 16 million liters of fuel from Slovenia and Croatia.

To the illicit transactions conducted by Mantua and Brescia brokers, estimated at a total of 65 million, a sort of tax was individually applied, probably due to the Camorra. SLIDING UP THE RATINGS OF THE REPORTS It emerges that the Camorra is the first mafia organization to have colonized the Brescia area through the "entertainment industry" and tourism.


The Laezza family, adjacent to the Moccia di Afragola clan, in 2014 it was the owner of nightclubs and hotel facilities in Desenzano and Lonato. In 2008 he moved to Brescia under probation Biagio Bifulco, according to investigators the new regent of the Fabbrocino clan of San Giuseppe Vesuviano.


The presence of Cosa Nostra seems more sporadic, due to transversal events. Salvatore Badalamenti was the resident of Orzinuovi, nephew of the historic boss Gaetano who had spent a forced stay in Calcinato. In San Zeno the headquarters of Rosario Cascino was set up and in Ghedi that of Nunzio Mirko Licata: both referred to the thigh of Cosa Nostra headed by Daniele Emmanuello.

But the province of Brescia is also the land of 'ndrangheta. In Garda, Francesco Scullino, a native of Oppido Mamertina, considered a boss. The abduction of Roberta Ghidini in 1991 cannot be forgotten. To organize the kidnapping of the girl - released a month later in the province of Reggio Calabria - was the Mazzaferro clan of Marina di Gioiosa Ionica, 'ndrina present in Lumezzane.

Finally, the Sacra Corona Unita, which in the Brescia area sees the presence of representatives of the Tornese clan, originally from Monteroni, in the province of Lecce. •

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:53 am

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by scagghiuni » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:28 am

Bklyn21 wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:48 pm
scagghiuni wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:10 pm
Bklyn21 wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:00 pm
scagghiuni wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:58 am they are one and the same since the beginning, before italy unification when sicily, calabria and naples where the two sicilies kingdom under the bourbons, cosa nostra/ndrangheta/camorra are just regional nicknames
I thought it was Just Cosa Nostra and Ndrangheta that are one and the same group with The Cammorra and SCU being totally separate and operating in a totally different manner then LCN Ndrangheta. The Cammorra has no pyramidal structure and no mandamenti , No dome , No cupola, No boss or Commission ! The Cammorra is Like a bunch of gangs , Just clans with a BOSS who are constantly battling each other .
the real camorra are not the juvenile gangs but the casalesi, the contini-licciardi, the polverino-nuvoletta etc. the scu is also the same thing, it changes the name but just a regional one, there are several informants who said they are all the same thing
Ok . But aren't there no Overall dome ? Or Commission ? Where one boss or a few bosses or clans are at the top and hand down commands to the rest of the clans through regional mandamenti ? I heard they do all come and work together alot but unlike Cosa Nostra and Ndrangheta which are one and the same and have lower to higher ranking members and bosses who belong to both groups. And unlike the Neapolitans the Calabrians and Sicilians are mostly of the same origin and background / They are the same people . It was said long ago Sicilians/Cosa Nostra who were sent or banished from Sicily set up in Reggio Calabria and eventually formed the Ndrangheta . So all the Mafias are one whole ?
no, they have not a commission like sicilian mafia or a 'camera di controllo' like the ndrangheta, the camorra had in 1800 when it was pyramidal and hierarchical but that structure was dismantled in the early 1900s... raffaele cutolo proofed to reform it in the 70s but he failed
anyway ndrangheta copied the old camorra structure in prison, it's a sort of old camorra branch formed in the late 1800s

Re: Relations between the Mafias

by CabriniGreen » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:17 pm

Same with NY, when's the last confirmed Commision meeting? Probably Massino era... not sure about a meeting after his time on top.

The organizations are separate, but share basically the same ideologies and methodologies, culture, language, I mean they basically ARE the same, just from different parts of Italy....

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