THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:50 pm

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:54 pm Does anyone have the book in pdf? Even if it's in Italian, it's closer to my language, maybe I can understand and translate some parts.

Nope. Hasn't been published as pdf or ebook.

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:54 pm Does anyone have the book in pdf? Even if it's in Italian, it's closer to my language, maybe I can understand and translate some parts.

thekiduknow wrote:

Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:57 pm Lists complied by forum members have been posted before on this board or its predecessor.

On that list there were 20-25 murders related to the conflict in total.

Do you have a link? I searched for "Castellammare/Castellammarese War" in the forum search and not much came up.

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:01 pm I think Valachi gave the figure during his Senate testimony, and the Valachi Papers book also gives the 60 deaths figure.

I forgot about Pinzolo, he's a definite causality and his absence from Critchley's list is interesting.

I'm glad you bring up DeBellis, Mione and Casteranos deaths, as it bring up an interesting question I've always thought about, when does the war actually end? Is it with the death of Masseria, or with Maranzano only a few months later? Whether we think of the war as a fight between the outcasted Castellemarese and the dominate Mafia groups , or a fight between two bosses over the 'Boss of Bosses' position, it would make sense have the death of Maranzano as an end point in my opinion.

I would love to hear others opinions about the war.

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:06 pm

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:22 pm

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:57 pm I thought the war was actually another rebellion against masseria that was being dictator at the time as boss of bosses, actually starting in 1928 with D'aquila's death and ending with Maranzano's death and the creation of the commission, so if that's right i believe 40 is an exaggerated number and 14 would be the most correct.

Well, according to Gentile, Masseria put a death sentence against the Castellamarese faction which lead to the outbreak of the war, not unlike when D'Aquila passed death sentences against Morello and Masseria. Masseria then killed Milazzao, who was from Castellammare, which Maranzano used to rile support for his rebellion, not D'Aquila's. So, I don't think you can count D'Aquila's murder as an official part of the war, given that he wasn't part of the Castellamarese faction.

so what I saw is correct? was the war actually a castellamarese clan rebellion against masseria that began after the deaths of Gaetano Reina and Gaspare Milazzo?

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:22 pm

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:57 pm I thought the war was actually another rebellion against masseria that was being dictator at the time as boss of bosses, actually starting in 1928 with D'aquila's death and ending with Maranzano's death and the creation of the commission, so if that's right i believe 40 is an exaggerated number and 14 would be the most correct.

Well, according to Gentile, Masseria put a death sentence against the Castellamarese faction which lead to the outbreak of the war, not unlike when D'Aquila passed death sentences against Morello and Masseria. Masseria then killed Milazzao, who was from Castellammare, which Maranzano used to rile support for his rebellion, not D'Aquila's. So, I don't think you can count D'Aquila's murder as an official part of the war, given that he wasn't part of the Castellamarese faction.

Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:57 pm Lists complied by forum members have been posted before on this board or its predecessor.

On that list there were 20-25 murders related to the conflict in total.

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:57 pm I thought the war was actually another rebellion against masseria that was being dictator at the time as boss of bosses, actually starting in 1928 with D'aquila's death and ending with Maranzano's death and the creation of the commission, so if that's right i believe 40 is an exaggerated number and 14 would be the most correct.

maxiestern11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:51 pm I agree with you Pogo. There were probably other deaths that weren’t publicized.... or disappearances