by B. » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:09 am
antimafia wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:07 pm
B.,
I'd be glad to discuss hierarchy and, in doing so, I'd still be able to remain on topic.
Lo Presti was born January 24, 1948. He was almost two years younger than Vito Rizzuto. So when Lo Presti arrived in Canada via Halifax in August 1969 -- per Edwards and Nicaso's
Deadly silence... book -- Lo Presti was only 21 years old. The English edition of
Mafia inc. states that Lo Presti arrived in 1969 and was "quickly inducted into the Montreal Mafia." If he is considered a Bonanno in 1969 during a time when the books were supposed to be closed, I suspect Lo Presti was a transfer. Why? Because a 21-year-old Gerlando Sciascia arrived in North America in 1955 and was either made in Sicily before arriving or made in Sicily at some point afterward -- recall that Lamothe and Humphreys indicate, in all three editions of
The Sixth Family..., that Sciascia was made in Sicily.
If Lo Presti is a Bonanno in 1969, I could easily see other Montrealers born in the Rizzutos' hometown already being Bonannos in 1965.
Interesting, and thank you for the insight. It doesn't seem Montreal was allowed to induct new members until NYC opened the books, so the use of that specific word might be off like you said. We know transfers were possible, though it would be surprising if it was done "quickly" given what Violi said about an extended probation period for transfers.
I'd be interested in knowing their source for LoPresti's "quick induction", too, or if it was just inferred from his activities and relationships.
The Sicilian mafia continued (and seemingly continues, for that matter) to induct men at young ages even into modern years, so entirely possible to me LoPresti was inducted in Sicily prior to arrival in N.America like some of the Sicilian-born members involved with the Bonanno, Gambino, and DeCavalcante families during the same period -- all families who had strong representation at the Bono wedding.
Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:59 pm
Not nickpicking imo. A soldier cannot be another soldier's lieutenant.
Rizzuto was accurate in his description that they were all equals, because that's what all the remaining members were without a capo.
And Lo Presti was killed years before Vito Rizzuto was generally considered to be the top figure in Montreal. At the time in the 80s and early 90s it were Nick Rizzuto (unofficially although he was listed as capo at one time) and Sciascia (officially).
I think Rizzuto was made right or shortly after the capos murders.
Yeah, if LoPresti was described as the elder Nick Rizzuto's underling I might still have questions, but I'd be able to follow the logic. This "Vito Rizzuto superboss forever" type narrative is unfortunate to me because nobody can take away the fact that Vito Rizzuto was an incredibly influential mafia figure and the "hype" muddies up otherwise great research and writing.
I think what bothers me about the Rizzuto narrative is it inevitably downplays Sciascia's importance, seemingly because he was operating in NYC directly with the Bonanno hierarchy and not managing the day-to-day activities in Montreal (though LoPresti by all accounts served as his intermediary). Sciascia was blocked from living in Canada, so there was a practical reason for his separation from Canada, but in mafia politics it's not uncommon for a leader to live closer to the political center of the mafia, some distance away from his underlings. In Sicily for example we have bosses spanning generations from various areas around the island who lived in Palermo because it was the political center while maintaining control of their hometown family/region through underlings.
--
Getting somewhat back on topic, I was one of those who challenged the idea that Nick Rizzuto was a made member in Sicily prior to the Bonannos, but now it seems realistic to me based on some more info that has come out about Montreal and Sicilian transfers.
Violi's close contact with Agrigento mandamento figures in the 1970s tells us there is much we don't know, as well as the nearby Racalmuto, AG foundations of the Buffalo-Hamilton group that go back over 100 years now based on what came out of the Maranzano Informer issue. Suddenly there was this "explosion" of Siculiana and Cattolica Eraclea mafiosi in Montreal, but I have to wonder if there were earlier Montreal members from Agrigento we don't know about, especially with drug trafficker Sebastiano Nani of the Gambino family (born in Cattolica Eraclea with a Renda mother) traveling to Canada in the 1950s.
[quote=antimafia post_id=119694 time=1565741260 user_id=113]
B.,
I'd be glad to discuss hierarchy and, in doing so, I'd still be able to remain on topic.
Lo Presti was born January 24, 1948. He was almost two years younger than Vito Rizzuto. So when Lo Presti arrived in Canada via Halifax in August 1969 -- per Edwards and Nicaso's [i]Deadly silence...[/i] book -- Lo Presti was only 21 years old. The English edition of [i]Mafia inc.[/i] states that Lo Presti arrived in 1969 and was "quickly inducted into the Montreal Mafia." If he is considered a Bonanno in 1969 during a time when the books were supposed to be closed, I suspect Lo Presti was a transfer. Why? Because a 21-year-old Gerlando Sciascia arrived in North America in 1955 and was either made in Sicily before arriving or made in Sicily at some point afterward -- recall that Lamothe and Humphreys indicate, in all three editions of [i]The Sixth Family[/i]..., that Sciascia was made in Sicily.
If Lo Presti is a Bonanno in 1969, I could easily see other Montrealers born in the Rizzutos' hometown already being Bonannos in 1965.
[/quote]
Interesting, and thank you for the insight. It doesn't seem Montreal was allowed to induct new members until NYC opened the books, so the use of that specific word might be off like you said. We know transfers were possible, though it would be surprising if it was done "quickly" given what Violi said about an extended probation period for transfers.
I'd be interested in knowing their source for LoPresti's "quick induction", too, or if it was just inferred from his activities and relationships.
The Sicilian mafia continued (and seemingly continues, for that matter) to induct men at young ages even into modern years, so entirely possible to me LoPresti was inducted in Sicily prior to arrival in N.America like some of the Sicilian-born members involved with the Bonanno, Gambino, and DeCavalcante families during the same period -- all families who had strong representation at the Bono wedding.
[quote=Lupara post_id=119719 time=1565751550 user_id=111]
Not nickpicking imo. A soldier cannot be another soldier's lieutenant.
Rizzuto was accurate in his description that they were all equals, because that's what all the remaining members were without a capo.
And Lo Presti was killed years before Vito Rizzuto was generally considered to be the top figure in Montreal. At the time in the 80s and early 90s it were Nick Rizzuto (unofficially although he was listed as capo at one time) and Sciascia (officially).
I think Rizzuto was made right or shortly after the capos murders.
[/quote]
Yeah, if LoPresti was described as the elder Nick Rizzuto's underling I might still have questions, but I'd be able to follow the logic. This "Vito Rizzuto superboss forever" type narrative is unfortunate to me because nobody can take away the fact that Vito Rizzuto was an incredibly influential mafia figure and the "hype" muddies up otherwise great research and writing.
I think what bothers me about the Rizzuto narrative is it inevitably downplays Sciascia's importance, seemingly because he was operating in NYC directly with the Bonanno hierarchy and not managing the day-to-day activities in Montreal (though LoPresti by all accounts served as his intermediary). Sciascia was blocked from living in Canada, so there was a practical reason for his separation from Canada, but in mafia politics it's not uncommon for a leader to live closer to the political center of the mafia, some distance away from his underlings. In Sicily for example we have bosses spanning generations from various areas around the island who lived in Palermo because it was the political center while maintaining control of their hometown family/region through underlings.
--
Getting somewhat back on topic, I was one of those who challenged the idea that Nick Rizzuto was a made member in Sicily prior to the Bonannos, but now it seems realistic to me based on some more info that has come out about Montreal and Sicilian transfers.
Violi's close contact with Agrigento mandamento figures in the 1970s tells us there is much we don't know, as well as the nearby Racalmuto, AG foundations of the Buffalo-Hamilton group that go back over 100 years now based on what came out of the Maranzano Informer issue. Suddenly there was this "explosion" of Siculiana and Cattolica Eraclea mafiosi in Montreal, but I have to wonder if there were earlier Montreal members from Agrigento we don't know about, especially with drug trafficker Sebastiano Nani of the Gambino family (born in Cattolica Eraclea with a Renda mother) traveling to Canada in the 1950s.