THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Stroccos wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 6:49 am

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:53 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:52 pm Adam posted a quote from Kenjis book a few pages back that mentions him as a made member in Jimmy Caci's Crew. I haven't read so I don't know.


Pogo

Ah ok, don’t remember reading that. I always found it fascinating that Dioguardi ended up working with the Colombo Brothers Crew in the last years of his life.

wasn't he always with them ? even serving as a bodyguard for the dad ?

Confederate wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 5:54 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 5:31 pm

scagghiuni wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 1:49 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 5:47 am Right so just regard the reports because they don't say what you want to hear. You have a habit of doing that.


Pogo

did you not always say that if there are no indictments or enough ones it means that it is no longer activity?
buffalo, no indictments, it is dead according to fbi although violi wiretaps

How closely do you follow Eurasian organized crime indictments in California? My guess is, if you went back through the press releases of the Justice Department and FBI offices there, as well as local prosecutors, over the past 25 years, you'd find a good number of cases involving defendants from Russia and Eastern Europe. Most of which would not be huge cases with 100+ defendants like the Armenian Power one that made national news, but rather ones involving smaller groups involved in health care fraud, insurance fraud, ATM skimming, and so on.

In 2007, the Southern California Eurasian Organized Crime Task Force had arrested over 100 suspects in recent years on fraud and other charges. Most of these you'll be unaware of unless you do your research and don't just depend on what you read in the ocassional headline.

Those non Italian organized Crime rings, anywhere in the Country, are notorious for being involved in Fraud. They do it through stolen identities so you never know who they really are in real life. No different than getting a phone call from some foreigner, with a heavy accent, saying he is from Dell Computer or from Microsoft and telling you there is something wrong with your computer so you need to let him "fix" it for you. Fraud is rampant in this Country and most of it has nothing to do with what ever is left of the Italian Mafia, especially in cities like Los Angeles, Denver etc.

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:53 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:52 pm Adam posted a quote from Kenjis book a few pages back that mentions him as a made member in Jimmy Caci's Crew. I haven't read so I don't know.


Pogo

Ah ok, don’t remember reading that. I always found it fascinating that Dioguardi ended up working with the Colombo Brothers Crew in the last years of his life.

Confederate wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 1:09 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 6:06 am
Just to play Devil's Advocate, could you argue that South Florida has far less law enforcement pressure for wiseguys?

Look at it this way - you say there has been a huge drop-off in Florida busts post-2011, and you would be right. But there have been dropoffs in all Mafia cases post-2011, especially with certain families that have been ignored due to the FBI squad restructuring (I'm looking at the Colombos and DeCavalcantes).
Obviously, the FBI is using its enormously reduced manpower to combat the larger, and more dangerous families, and putting smaller outfits on the backburner. But you can't say that the Colombos or DeCavs are no longer fully active, and by the same token you can't say that South Florida's LCN presence has considerably diminished since the early 2010s. Sheer number-wise, there are a whole lot of young associates down there, judging from prior busts dating back to the 1990s. And even then, lots of New Yorkers travel/retire/move down to Florida regularly. Then, you've got the rackets - drugs are big down there, fraud seems to be a big thing, and money laundering is especially lucrative in that particular state.

I see what you're saying but Florida has always been an outpost for the NY families, so I'm not sure activity there and the Colombos in New York itself is an apples to apples comparison. Only enough time will tell. And that's not to say their presence is all gone. In the Pagano bust a few years ago we saw the Genovese family's bookmaking operations extending down to Florida.

As Pogo pointed out, we've seen a seen a big drop off with DeCavalcantes over the past 20 years. That's what has led me to believe they've been running on fumes for years now. In my opinion, the 4 remaining families outside New York are all small and weak.

By the 4 remaining Families, I assume you mean DeCavalcante, Chicago, Philly, & New England. In other words, not Detroit and certainly not Buffalo. Correct? Or, are you counting DeCavalcante as part of New York area and you are including Detroit?

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 6:06 am
Just to play Devil's Advocate, could you argue that South Florida has far less law enforcement pressure for wiseguys?

Look at it this way - you say there has been a huge drop-off in Florida busts post-2011, and you would be right. But there have been dropoffs in all Mafia cases post-2011, especially with certain families that have been ignored due to the FBI squad restructuring (I'm looking at the Colombos and DeCavalcantes).
Obviously, the FBI is using its enormously reduced manpower to combat the larger, and more dangerous families, and putting smaller outfits on the backburner. But you can't say that the Colombos or DeCavs are no longer fully active, and by the same token you can't say that South Florida's LCN presence has considerably diminished since the early 2010s. Sheer number-wise, there are a whole lot of young associates down there, judging from prior busts dating back to the 1990s. And even then, lots of New Yorkers travel/retire/move down to Florida regularly. Then, you've got the rackets - drugs are big down there, fraud seems to be a big thing, and money laundering is especially lucrative in that particular state.

I see what you're saying but Florida has always been an outpost for the NY families, so I'm not sure activity there and the Colombos in New York itself is an apples to apples comparison. Only enough time will tell. And that's not to say their presence is all gone. In the Pagano bust a few years ago we saw the Genovese family's bookmaking operations extending down to Florida.

As Pogo pointed out, we've seen a seen a big drop off with DeCavalcantes over the past 20 years. That's what has led me to believe they've been running on fumes for years now. In my opinion, the 4 remaining families outside New York are all small and weak.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:52 pm Adam posted a quote from Kenjis book a few pages back that mentions him as a made member in Jimmy Caci's Crew. I haven't read so I don't know.


Pogo

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 10:42 am So adding Robert Paduano, Mike Esposito, Tommy Gambino, Philip Dioguardi, James Iannone and possibly Frank Valenti that gets us to 19 or 20 members. Though I'm not sure if Rocky DeRosa was still alive in 1996. So 18-20 confirmed members, Possibly a few other old members still living as well.


Pogo

gohnjotti wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 6:06 am
Just to play Devil's Advocate, could you argue that South Florida has far less law enforcement pressure for wiseguys?

Look at it this way - you say there has been a huge drop-off in Florida busts post-2011, and you would be right. But there have been dropoffs in all Mafia cases post-2011, especially with certain families that have been ignored due to the FBI squad restructuring (I'm looking at the Colombos and DeCavalcantes).
Obviously, the FBI is using its enormously reduced manpower to combat the larger, and more dangerous families, and putting smaller outfits on the backburner. But you can't say that the Colombos or DeCavs are no longer fully active, and by the same token you can't say that South Florida's LCN presence has considerably diminished since the early 2010s. Sheer number-wise, there are a whole lot of young associates down there, judging from prior busts dating back to the 1990s. And even then, lots of New Yorkers travel/retire/move down to Florida regularly. Then, you've got the rackets - drugs are big down there, fraud seems to be a big thing, and money laundering is especially lucrative in that particular state.

Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 4:41 am

Stroccos wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 11:47 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2019 5:33 pm Going back to LA. Since we talked about the 1996 report here is a rough chart I put together for that year. They had about 20 members at the time and I've been able to ID 14. Does anyone know the others?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Los Angeles Family Circa 1996


Boss: Peter Milano
UnderBoss: Carmen Milano


Capos:
John Aquilante –San Diego (Died in 1996)
Vincent "Jimmy" Caci
?-Luigi Gelfuso
?-Michael “Rizzi” Rizzitello (IP)

-Gelfuso and Rizzitello were listed as Capos in a 1988 chart. I don’t know if they still were by 1996. Doubtful about Rizzitello since he had been in prison since the mid-80s.


Soldiers:
Louis "Little Man" Caruso (Possible Capo)
Stephen "The Whale" Cino
Raymond “Rocky” DeRosa
Louis Tom Dragna
Russell "Rusty" Massetta (Shelved)
Robert "Charles Caci/Bobby" Milano
John “Johnny V” Vaccaro
Rocco "Rocky Bigfoot" Zangari


Anyone else? I’m sure there may have been ome older Dragna-Brooklier era members still alive at this time.


Pogo

what about frank valenti ,DiLeonardo said he was put with Milano by the commission since he was in arizona

If true, what would it have amounted to? Valenti was retired due to his age but still a member in good standing. I don't think he underwent a formal transfer into LA but if there were any needs to contact "that world" then Pete Milano is the around, he represents the brand so to speak.


Also, Rizzitello was very close to Fratianno who made him in a car. Then Brooklier is released, Fratianno falls out of favor and decides to become a full-on informant, this left Rizzitello in a vulnerable position. Just because he was made a member doesn't mean the LA membership has to deal with him as their own. So Rizzitello allegedly got "sanctioned" by Neil Dellacroce to have his own independant crew, which included Tony Fiato. This Rizzi Crew was active for a time in 80's but after Rizzitello was in prison and Fiato flipped, the group kinda languished into nothing. Despite having several Italians with ties to LCN Families, it was very much an multiethnic coalition. But Rizzitello was never a traditional LA Family Capo, he was not under Milano nor responsible to him. Tony Fiato claims to have been with LA after a falling out with Rizzi, but he mentions no ceremony and instead it's a simple: "You want him in, he's in." He was either never made or Milano stopped the use of a ceremony at some point.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 9:36 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 8:29 pm Even Florida seems to be fading away. Other than that pain cream scam a few years back there has been nothing out of Florida since the Gambinos, Colombos, Genovese and Bonannos all had their Florida Crews busted up in the early 2010s. It is still too early to tell but it seems we are getting closer and closer to that time when LCN will be a strictly NYC/NJ operation.


Pogo

Yeah, there's definitely been a drop off there in recent years. In 2011, the feds said Russian OC was their biggest OC priority in Miami.

When I say the day will come that the LCN will only be found within the extended New York metropolitan area, I mean -

Manhattan
Brooklyn
Queens
Bronx
Staten Island
Long Island
Westchester/North suburbs
Southwest Connecticut
New Jersey

It's in that region now that 80% of the remaining LCN membership operates.