THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:29 pm Alrighty then. Hoover had some of the information from Scarpa, but their information did not always overlap since they belonged to different crime families and experiences. Scarpa didn't always know who belonged to families outside his own. He also didn't have any knowledge before his induction except for generalizations. Valachi had personal experience going back to the 1920s and especially the war of 1930-31. The FBI first learned of the Commission from a bug listening to a conversation between Tony Accardo and Sam Giancana around 1959, then had to scramble to dig up information on guys like Joe Ida. Other sources before Valachi were often contradictory.

Valachi was actually a game-changer for the FBI. Before Valachi the organization was called La Causa Nostra, probably because of their heavily accented pronunciation. With Valachi's info it was corrected to Cosa Nostra (plus La for consistency). The FBI also had a much better understanding of the hierarchy. Earlier files don't have terms like caporegime or capodecina.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:48 pm

The Greek wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:57 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:41 am

The Greek wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:23 am

B. wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:11 pm Valachi wasn't fed info. In some cases they did erroneously attribute incorrect info to him in publicly released material, but the examples I'm aware of were the result of the FBN mixing things up when they forwarded info from their early Valachi interviews to the FBI.

Thanks guys. Would it be true to say that the FBN knew about the structure and most of the stuff Valachi was testifying to already because of Scarpa?

Scarpa was giving info to the FBI so the FBN wouldn't have access to it. The FBI and FBN rarely shared information because they had a notorious rivalry. The material the FBN had from 1962 suggests the bureau didn't understand the hierarchy and structure of the Cosa Nostra.

Thanks Antillar. Would you say Hoover already knew everything Valachi was testifying to?

By the time Valachi testified Hoover would have known what he was going to say. Valachi's handler made regular reports that made it up the food chain ending with Hoover. I'm sure Valachi also had a detailed 302 that went to the FBI director.

The Greek wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:57 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:41 am

The Greek wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:23 am

B. wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:11 pm Valachi wasn't fed info. In some cases they did erroneously attribute incorrect info to him in publicly released material, but the examples I'm aware of were the result of the FBN mixing things up when they forwarded info from their early Valachi interviews to the FBI.

Thanks guys. Would it be true to say that the FBN knew about the structure and most of the stuff Valachi was testifying to already because of Scarpa?

Scarpa was giving info to the FBI so the FBN wouldn't have access to it. The FBI and FBN rarely shared information because they had a notorious rivalry. The material the FBN had from 1962 suggests the bureau didn't understand the hierarchy and structure of the Cosa Nostra.

Thanks Antillar. Would you say Hoover already knew everything Valachi was testifying to?

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:41 am

The Greek wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:23 am

B. wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:11 pm Valachi wasn't fed info. In some cases they did erroneously attribute incorrect info to him in publicly released material, but the examples I'm aware of were the result of the FBN mixing things up when they forwarded info from their early Valachi interviews to the FBI.

Thanks guys. Would it be true to say that the FBN knew about the structure and most of the stuff Valachi was testifying to already because of Scarpa?

Scarpa was giving info to the FBI so the FBN wouldn't have access to it. The FBI and FBN rarely shared information because they had a notorious rivalry. The material the FBN had from 1962 suggests the bureau didn't understand the hierarchy and structure of the Cosa Nostra.

The Greek wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:23 am

B. wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:11 pm Valachi wasn't fed info. In some cases they did erroneously attribute incorrect info to him in publicly released material, but the examples I'm aware of were the result of the FBN mixing things up when they forwarded info from their early Valachi interviews to the FBI.

Thanks guys. Would it be true to say that the FBN knew about the structure and most of the stuff Valachi was testifying to already because of Scarpa?

B. wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:11 pm Valachi wasn't fed info. In some cases they did erroneously attribute incorrect info to him in publicly released material, but the examples I'm aware of were the result of the FBN mixing things up when they forwarded info from their early Valachi interviews to the FBI.

davidf1989 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:46 pm How about Salvatore Piscopo and Frank Bompensiero from the Los Angeles crime family?
https://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/salvatorepiscopo.html

From the Patriarca crime family Fat Vinnie Teresa. Although I am not sure how believable he is.

Guest wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:48 pm

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:18 pm Greg Scarpa started informing before Valachi, it's how the FBI knew about "Causa[sic] Nostra", which surprised Valachi when they asked about it.

In Deal With The Devil, Peter Lance wonders if it's possible that most of what Valachi testified to was fed to him by the Feds from Scarpa. BTW I thought that book was a great read. Really gives new perspective to the Colombo "war", and how lucky Devecchio was to get off. Guy was a scumbag

Guest wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:48 pm

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:18 pm Greg Scarpa started informing before Valachi, it's how the FBI knew about "Causa[sic] Nostra", which surprised Valachi when they asked about it.

In Deal With The Devil, Peter Lance wonders if it's possible that most of what Valachi testified to was fed to him by the Feds from Scarpa. BTW I thought that book was a great read. Really gives new perspective to the Colombo "war", and how lucky Devecchio was to get off. Guy was a scumbag

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:18 pm Greg Scarpa started informing before Valachi, it's how the FBI knew about "Causa[sic] Nostra", which surprised Valachi when they asked about it.