THE BLACK HAND FORUM

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 5:14 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 4:45 pm

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:00 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:38 pm

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:17 pm Who was the murdered guy who assisted Panozzo with the killing of the elderly women?

Steven Bratner was the guy's name. Burglar and drug dealer (as well as user). I don't believe he actually assisted Panozzo in the actual murder but rather in the scam. What was interesting about the murder was that Panozzo was the one who dropped him off at the hospital, where he later died. Bratner was shot only a quarter-mile from Joey Lombardo's house.

Sounds like Panozzo set him up. He could’ve fell out of line, owed money or maybe something else led to his murder. But i’d be surprised if the outfit didn’t play a role in his murder.

Older but good thread. FWIW I believe that Bratner was also a C-Note. It’s always possible that he was killed by the Outfit, but guys were killed over gang wars in that neighborhood back then all the time. It was quite literally a warzone and the C-Notes were super hard in the streets back then, at war with essentially every gang surrounding them (including some of the most notorious sections of the biggest Latino gangs in Chicago such as the Kings, MLDs, and SDs).

If I had to bet, I’d say that Bratner was likely shot by the Huron and Hoyne Latin Kings, who were founded by defector C-Notes the Salas bros and the most virulent enemies of the C-Notes for years.

Thanks for the response. Interesting take on the Bratner murder, I didn’t even know that the C notes gang were that intense back then. I thought they were just a mafia farm team that did robberies.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 4:45 pm

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:00 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:38 pm

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:17 pm Who was the murdered guy who assisted Panozzo with the killing of the elderly women?

Steven Bratner was the guy's name. Burglar and drug dealer (as well as user). I don't believe he actually assisted Panozzo in the actual murder but rather in the scam. What was interesting about the murder was that Panozzo was the one who dropped him off at the hospital, where he later died. Bratner was shot only a quarter-mile from Joey Lombardo's house.

Sounds like Panozzo set him up. He could’ve fell out of line, owed money or maybe something else led to his murder. But i’d be surprised if the outfit didn’t play a role in his murder.

Older but good thread. FWIW I believe that Bratner was also a C-Note. It’s always possible that he was killed by the Outfit, but guys were killed over gang wars in that neighborhood back then all the time. It was quite literally a warzone and the C-Notes were super hard in the streets back then, at war with essentially every gang surrounding them (including some of the most notorious sections of the biggest Latino gangs in Chicago such as the Kings, MLDs, and SDs).

If I had to bet, I’d say that Bratner was likely shot by the Huron and Hoyne Latin Kings, who were founded by defector C-Notes the Salas bros and the most virulent enemies of the C-Notes for years.

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:00 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:38 pm

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:17 pm Who was the murdered guy who assisted Panozzo with the killing of the elderly women?

Steven Bratner was the guy's name. Burglar and drug dealer (as well as user). I don't believe he actually assisted Panozzo in the actual murder but rather in the scam. What was interesting about the murder was that Panozzo was the one who dropped him off at the hospital, where he later died. Bratner was shot only a quarter-mile from Joey Lombardo's house.

Sounds like Panozzo set him up. He could’ve fell out of line, owed money or maybe something else led to his murder. But i’d be surprised if the outfit didn’t play a role in his murder.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:52 am I can only go by what the documents say. Undoubtedly this Richard Mojica knew or knew of this Vito Loverde, but it doesn't mean the information he gave was accurate. It doesn't mean that Loverde did what Mojica said. For all we know, Mojica could have been a jailhouse snitch who was lying to get his time cut, or get off parole early. There's a reason why investigators didn't trust his information.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ch=loverde

By the way, there were also some Vito Loverdes related to Butch Loverde. This Loverde family originated from Piana dei Greci; Toto Loverde came from Palermo proper, so I don't think the two families were related. Plus, we don't know what the informant Mojica meant by "boss." What a guy on the street means by boss and what the FBI means by boss aren't necessarily the same thing. I've seen guys who were soldiers called bosses by associates. Frank Calabrese was called a boss more than once. So maybe the boss Mojica had in mind was Butch Loverde. We don't know.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:42 am

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:28 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:17 pm There's another document (on my phone so can't link) that says investigation found Richard Mojica's statements unfounded and without merit (something like that). So there you go. Maybe he was trying to get this Vito Loverde in trouble.

So this "Vito Loverde" really existed and was related to Toto?

Would need identifying information, so I don't know. There was a Vito Loverde born in 1949 in Arizona who later moved to Los Angeles, so it might be the same guy. He's young enough that he might still be alive.

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:28 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:17 pm There's another document (on my phone so can't link) that says investigation found Richard Mojica's statements unfounded and without merit (something like that). So there you go. Maybe he was trying to get this Vito Loverde in trouble.

So this "Vito Loverde" really existed and was related to Toto?

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:17 pm There's another document (on my phone so can't link) that says investigation found Richard Mojica's statements unfounded and without merit (something like that). So there you go. Maybe he was trying to get this Vito Loverde in trouble.

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:50 am

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am
Good stuff and thanks.

Speaking about Frank Loverde, or should I say the name Loverde, what's your opinion on this document...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ch=Loverde

A cousin of Toto Loverde? Interesting, but it's just a factoid. Don't know anything about Vito Loverde. Maybe he supported the Palestinians, or maybe this Richard Mojica made up a story. Who knows?

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am
Good stuff and thanks.

Speaking about Frank Loverde, or should I say the name Loverde, what's your opinion on this document...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ch=Loverde

Antiliar wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:31 am

SolarSolano wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:59 pm Also the guy that got in a fight with Mike Mags was Sammy Louis - grandson of the infamous Sam Louis (Luisi) who went back to the Capone days. The family were all cops, bookies and union guys -

Sam Louis (but the newspapers always had Lewis), born Luzi, was another guy who had a scary reputation but little is known about. One informer said he was a supervisor in the Maxwell District who got his power from Accardo and Giancana; another added that he met weekly with Giancana. He was (apparently) part of the Battaglia crew but operated Parr Finance in the Near North Side. Don Parrillo owned Parr Finance, which he got from his father William Parrillo, a Republican politician on the West Side. Lewis lived a block away from Mad Sam DeStefano and they both used Action Jackson to collect loans for time to time. Lewis was an old 42 Gang member, so probably knew Battaglia and Giancana back in the 1920s. He also served 18 months for a bootlegging conviction. Lewis denied being a juice collection and said his company was licensed and fully legal. Despite that, he was ordered out of Oak Park in 1961. The Parrillo family cut ties with him in 1963 because he was a target of law enforcement. Lewis was known to be close to Murray Humphreys and Gus Alex, and he used to meet at Paul Ricca's home on Sunday afternoons with Accardo and Battaglia. Both he and DeStefano, since the 1950s paid tribute to Accardo to operate juice in the West Side. He opened up his own loan business, More Finance, and was reported in 1965 to have a baseball bookmaking operation with Milwaukee Phil and Butch LoVerde. The bookmaking operation didn't do well and lost over $350,000. He died in 1972.

SolarSolano wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:59 pm Also the guy that got in a fight with Mike Mags was Sammy Louis - grandson of the infamous Sam Louis (Luisi) who went back to the Capone days. The family were all cops, bookies and union guys -

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:00 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:38 pm

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:17 pm Who was the murdered guy who assisted Panozzo with the killing of the elderly women?

Steven Bratner was the guy's name. Burglar and drug dealer (as well as user). I don't believe he actually assisted Panozzo in the actual murder but rather in the scam. What was interesting about the murder was that Panozzo was the one who dropped him off at the hospital, where he later died. Bratner was shot only a quarter-mile from Joey Lombardo's house.

Sounds like Panozzo set him up. He could’ve fell out of line, owed money or maybe something else led to his murder. But i’d be surprised if the outfit didn’t play a role in his murder.