BEST and WORST Mob Hits

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Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by johnny_scootch » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:00 pm

scagghiuni wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:16 am it thought masseria sent capone to chicago in order to take over mafia operations and fight joe aiello who was alligned with maranzano
capone was probably made a member in new york by masseria himself
No, Capone went to Chicago and worked under Johnny Torrio whose organization was NOT a part of Cosa Nostra. Capone only becomes the leader of that organization because Torrio decided to retire after an attempt on his life by rivals. This is in 1925 and it's not until few years later that Masseria becomes Boss of Bosses and begins making demands of tribute from the leaders of other families and basically throwing his weight around in a national sense that gets the balling rolling into what would become the Castellamaresi war. Sal Maranzano, Stefano Magaddino & Joe Aiello were compaesani and thus allied so to destabilize their alliance Masseria promises to make Capone a member & captain in his family if he kills Aiello. If Schiro doesn't flee or Reina isn't murdered chances are that Capone & his Outfit may never have become part of Cosa Nostra and the history of the Chicago underworld as we know it would be completely different.

Apologies to all for staying off topic.

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by scagghiuni » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:16 am

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:53 am
bert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:43 pm ^^^^
Unless you have evidence of him being made it's debatable. I have no evidence of him not being made, or of Torrio being made. I can say the same for almost anyone else in or not in the mafia.
The evidence we have comes from Bonanno and Gentile whose stories line up when it comes to Capone being accepted into Cosa Nostra by Masseria. Even Valachi references Capone as a Boss of Cosa Nostra which I'd imagine would be hard to pull of if you had never been made a member. While none of them nor anyone else to my recollection have ever mentioned or referenced Johnny Torrio as being a member. Now we are all free to believe whatever we want but the accounts of Bonanno, Gentile, Valachi & Clemente are pretty much the foundation for everything we know about the early American Cosa Nostra and 3 out of the 4 say he was in fact a member so imo and I'm sure the opinions of 99.9% of the members of this forum the case is closed on that question.
it thought masseria sent capone to chicago in order to take over mafia operations and fight joe aiello who was alligned with maranzano
capone was probably made a member in new york by masseria himself

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by HairyKnuckles » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:38 am

bert wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:52 am
HairyKnuckles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:27 pm
bert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:43 pm ^^^^
Unless you have evidence of him being made it's debatable. I have no evidence of him not being made, or of Torrio being made. I can say the same for almost anyone else in or not in the mafia. I am calm, and was not looking for a fight, I just like to discuss these topics. Good luck with the south rising again, and have a pleasant evening.
There is evidence of it (although evidence is sometime too strong a word in these circumstances) from Nicola Gentile who is one of the earliest sources we have on the Mafia. According to him, Al Capone was forced by Masseria to pay a tribute of 50,000 dollars. Tony Lombardo, one of two (or possibly three) Mafia bosses operating in the greater Chicago area (strangely enough) tried to convince Capone not to pay the sum. Perhaps he had his own plans on making Capone an associate later on? And this what followed:


20190403_080725.jpg
From what I gathered of that Capone paid Masseria to get made according to Gentile?
That´s open to debate I guess.

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by Frank » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:58 am

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:53 am
bert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:43 pm ^^^^
Unless you have evidence of him being made it's debatable. I have no evidence of him not being made, or of Torrio being made. I can say the same for almost anyone else in or not in the mafia.
The evidence we have comes from Bonanno and Gentile whose stories line up when it comes to Capone being accepted into Cosa Nostra by Masseria. Even Valachi references Capone as a Boss of Cosa Nostra which I'd imagine would be hard to pull of if you had never been made a member. While none of them nor anyone else to my recollection have ever mentioned or referenced Johnny Torrio as being a member. Now we are all free to believe whatever we want but the accounts of Bonanno, Gentile, Valachi & Clemente are pretty much the foundation for everything we know about the early American Cosa Nostra and 3 out of the 4 say he was in fact a member so imo and I'm sure the opinions of 99.9% of the members of this forum the case is closed on that question.
Well said. Also as far as Torrio , I'm just guessing that if he was made already in his Chicago years, than I'm pretty sure he would of made Capone, Which he didn't. There is a possibility Torrio was made later on, but so far there is no evidence.

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by Rocco » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:02 am

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:54 am I’d also say Anthony Zizzo could be one of the best executed hits in recent memory. Guy disappears, body never found.
Yep. No one convicted either.

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by slimshady_007 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:54 am

I’d also say Anthony Zizzo could be one of the best executed hits in recent memory. Guy disappears, body never found.

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by johnny_scootch » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:53 am

bert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:43 pm ^^^^
Unless you have evidence of him being made it's debatable. I have no evidence of him not being made, or of Torrio being made. I can say the same for almost anyone else in or not in the mafia.
The evidence we have comes from Bonanno and Gentile whose stories line up when it comes to Capone being accepted into Cosa Nostra by Masseria. Even Valachi references Capone as a Boss of Cosa Nostra which I'd imagine would be hard to pull of if you had never been made a member. While none of them nor anyone else to my recollection have ever mentioned or referenced Johnny Torrio as being a member. Now we are all free to believe whatever we want but the accounts of Bonanno, Gentile, Valachi & Clemente are pretty much the foundation for everything we know about the early American Cosa Nostra and 3 out of the 4 say he was in fact a member so imo and I'm sure the opinions of 99.9% of the members of this forum the case is closed on that question.

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by bert » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:52 am

HairyKnuckles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:27 pm
bert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:43 pm ^^^^
Unless you have evidence of him being made it's debatable. I have no evidence of him not being made, or of Torrio being made. I can say the same for almost anyone else in or not in the mafia. I am calm, and was not looking for a fight, I just like to discuss these topics. Good luck with the south rising again, and have a pleasant evening.
There is evidence of it (although evidence is sometime too strong a word in these circumstances) from Nicola Gentile who is one of the earliest sources we have on the Mafia. According to him, Al Capone was forced by Masseria to pay a tribute of 50,000 dollars. Tony Lombardo, one of two (or possibly three) Mafia bosses operating in the greater Chicago area (strangely enough) tried to convince Capone not to pay the sum. Perhaps he had his own plans on making Capone an associate later on? And this what followed:


20190403_080725.jpg
From what I gathered of that Capone paid Masseria to get made according to Gentile?

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by Ivan » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:39 am

Fughedaboutit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:57 pm
Stroccos wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:50 pm
Fughedaboutit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:29 pm
NJShore4Life wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:11 am
Stroccos wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:01 am
Fughedaboutit wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:12 pm Best- This is a cliche and a common one, but HOFFA. Perfectly executed, body never found, nobody ever charged and still a mystery all these years later.

Worst - Anthony Nicodemo and Gino Dipietro. Broad daylight, public place...caught shortly after the hit with the gun in his own car. Terrible in every way possible.

Best Hoffa for the same reason as you stated.

worst John Veasey they shoot this guy in the fucking head and he takes there guns and walks out the door and testifys agaisnt them all. The hitters would fuck up A wet dream
Philly has fucked up so many hits lol. Skinny Joey totally unloading on Nicky Jr at Dante and Luigi’s and him surviving, the Veasey shot to the head, and Bent Finger Lou paying a wired up informant to kill Marty then changing his mind to just assault him. You can’t make this shit up
Joey's planning was pretty good for a brazen Philly style hit...Halloween, mask on running up on him and unloading..His execution was piss poor...how he didnt get him point blank with a machine pistol is piss poor
That’s just pure luck on scarfos behalf , joey or whomever was the shooter got away with it ,
I would say it is more poor shooting than good luck. Like I said the plan was great, nobody was able to ID the shooter. But point blank with that machine pistol he should have been toast!
Always put two in the hat!

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by HairyKnuckles » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:27 pm

bert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:43 pm ^^^^
Unless you have evidence of him being made it's debatable. I have no evidence of him not being made, or of Torrio being made. I can say the same for almost anyone else in or not in the mafia. I am calm, and was not looking for a fight, I just like to discuss these topics. Good luck with the south rising again, and have a pleasant evening.
There is evidence of it (although evidence is sometime too strong a word in these circumstances) from Nicola Gentile who is one of the earliest sources we have on the Mafia. According to him, Al Capone was forced by Masseria to pay a tribute of 50,000 dollars. Tony Lombardo, one of two (or possibly three) Mafia bosses operating in the greater Chicago area (strangely enough) tried to convince Capone not to pay the sum. Perhaps he had his own plans on making Capone an associate later on? And this what followed:

20190403_080725.jpg

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by bert » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:43 pm

^^^^
Unless you have evidence of him being made it's debatable. I have no evidence of him not being made, or of Torrio being made. I can say the same for almost anyone else in or not in the mafia. I am calm, and was not looking for a fight, I just like to discuss these topics. Good luck with the south rising again, and have a pleasant evening.

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by Confederate » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:33 pm

bert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:17 pm
Confederate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:05 am
bert wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:29 pm
Ivan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:21 pm
bert wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:14 pm The Saint Valentines Day Massacre was not a Mafia killing
It technically was, given that Capone was a capo in the Masseria family by the time it occurred, and he probably gave the ultimate order to Maddox and Capezio.
I have to disagree Ivan, I don't think he was ever made. He was under Torrio, who was made, but Capone was just an associate. I know that over the years and on this site many will disagree, which is fine. As to who did it for him, one informer or LE expert says one thing, another gives different names.
The TITLE of the Thread is the "Best and Worst MOB Hits". It doesn't say Best and Worst Mafia hits.
It was a well executed hit way ahead of its time and the Outfit became bigger than ever after Capone went to Jail for tax evasion. In other words, the St. Valentines' Day Massacre didn't stop the Outfit. lol
As for Capone, he was made in New York. Villain and other fine researchers can verify it with documentation. However, even if he wasn't made when the St. Valentines's Day Massacre happened, (which is untrue) that is irrelevant to the subject matter of the TITLE of this thread.
You need to calm down. I was not going to answer this, but I see you got into it a second time. Mob and Mafia are sometimes interchangeable, sometimes not. Bugs Moran had a gang, and he was often called a mobster. He was not in the Mafia, nor were Legs Diamond, Dutch Schultz, and others. It's not big deal to me, I just was mentioning it.
Maybe you need to calm down. We all know Bugs Moran, Legs Diamond and Dutch Schultz were not in the Mafia. You said Al Capone was NEVER made and you were wrong. Also, made or not made, a Mob hit is a Mob hit. You then had to come on here and tell us that it was not a Mafia Hit which was irrelevant to the topic. No big deal. lol

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by bert » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:30 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:03 pm
bert wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:29 pm
I have to disagree Ivan, I don't think he was ever made. He was under Torrio, who was made, but Capone was just an associate. I know that over the years and on this site many will disagree, which is fine.
Torrio moved to Italy in 1925 and there is zero evidence he was ever a member of Cosa Nostra in fact his organization was a rival to the sanctioned Cosa Nostra family of Chicago. The St. Valentines Day massacre occurred early 1929 and Joe Bonanno says that Capone was made by Masseria by the end of summer 1930 so it wasn't until after that that the Colosimo/Torrio/Capone organization was accepted as a part of Cosa Nostra. So you're right in saying that at the time of the massacre that Capone while being a boss in his own right he was just an associate in Cosa Nostra terms but when it comes to Johnny Torrio it's very clear he was not made by the time he moved to Italy and chances are he was never made at all even after he returned (to NY not Chicago) and was considered somewhat of a consultant or elder statesman because of his considerable connections. If you have some evidence pointing to the contrary I'm sure we'd all be glad to see it because this is always a hot topic on the forum.
I didn't realize it was a hot topic. I have been following OC and the mafia for a long time, I had believed Torrio was made and Capone was not, and still do think so. I say Capone was not made because that was always believed, and what research I did years ago backed that up. I am actually surprised that people think he was. I don't get crazy about it though, if people believe he was I'm fine with that, Joe Bonnano said a lot of things, maybe he was lying, or he was truthful and I am wrong. I think we can all agree they had Mafia ties, and were not mistakenly called gangsters. Capone was so big it boggles the mind, just looking at all the guys who came up under him like Accardo and how much power they had years after the was gone shows that.



On another note, am I the only one having trouble with auto correct on here? People came out as 'Pepe" and periods get put in sentences automatically as I am still typing.

"Auto magically" was just put in replacing automatically

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by bert » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:17 pm

Confederate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:05 am
bert wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:29 pm
Ivan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:21 pm
bert wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:14 pm The Saint Valentines Day Massacre was not a Mafia killing
It technically was, given that Capone was a capo in the Masseria family by the time it occurred, and he probably gave the ultimate order to Maddox and Capezio.
I have to disagree Ivan, I don't think he was ever made. He was under Torrio, who was made, but Capone was just an associate. I know that over the years and on this site many will disagree, which is fine. As to who did it for him, one informer or LE expert says one thing, another gives different names.
The TITLE of the Thread is the "Best and Worst MOB Hits". It doesn't say Best and Worst Mafia hits.
It was a well executed hit way ahead of its time and the Outfit became bigger than ever after Capone went to Jail for tax evasion. In other words, the St. Valentines' Day Massacre didn't stop the Outfit. lol
As for Capone, he was made in New York. Villain and other fine researchers can verify it with documentation. However, even if he wasn't made when the St. Valentines's Day Massacre happened, (which is untrue) that is irrelevant to the subject matter of the TITLE of this thread.
You need to calm down. I was not going to answer this, but I see you got into it a second time. Mob and Mafia are sometimes interchangeable, sometimes not. Bugs Moran had a gang, and he was often called a mobster. He was not in the Mafia, nor were Legs Diamond, Dutch Schultz, and others. It's not big deal to me, I just was mentioning it.

Re: BEST and WORST Mob Hits

by Confederate » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:36 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:03 pm
bert wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:29 pm
I have to disagree Ivan, I don't think he was ever made. He was under Torrio, who was made, but Capone was just an associate. I know that over the years and on this site many will disagree, which is fine.
Torrio moved to Italy in 1925 and there is zero evidence he was ever a member of Cosa Nostra in fact his organization was a rival to the sanctioned Cosa Nostra family of Chicago. The St. Valentines Day massacre occurred early 1929 and Joe Bonanno says that Capone was made by Masseria by the end of summer 1930 so it wasn't until after that that the Colosimo/Torrio/Capone organization was accepted as a part of Cosa Nostra. So you're right in saying that at the time of the massacre that Capone while being a boss in his own right he was just an associate in Cosa Nostra terms but when it comes to Johnny Torrio it's very clear he was not made by the time he moved to Italy and chances are he was never made at all even after he returned (to NY not Chicago) and was considered somewhat of a consultant or elder statesman because of his considerable connections. If you have some evidence pointing to the contrary I'm sure we'd all be glad to see it because this is always a hot topic on the forum.
Thanks for clarifying WHEN Capone was made. However, going back to the original point, the title of this Thread is "Best and Worst Mob Hits" and the St. Valentines' Day Massacre definitely was a MOB hit. That's all that matters. As For Torrio, I believe you are correct.
It's just my opinion, but the way they orchestrated the St. Valentine's Day Massacre 90 years ago with guys being dressed as cops was very clever, brazen as hell, but very clever. The Outfit obviously survived the Heat afterwards and became bigger than ever during the 1930's forward.

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