News from Italy

Discuss all mafia families in the U.S., Canada, Italy, and everywhere else in the world.

Moderator: Capos

Post Reply
User avatar
Strax
Straightened out
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:55 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by Strax »

Liggio4 wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:58 pm First of all, Mafiosi are NOTORIOUS for claiming that they're not important and that they barely have any money, in an obvious show of false humility. Second of all, the proof is in the pudding, billions in assets tied to Matteo Messina Denaro have been seized over the years, there's been traces of his presence in several other countries, all while remaining a fugitive for over 3 decades. You don't achieve that without having some serious, and I emphasize serious here, money.
2008 seized €700 million from supermarket magnate Giuseppe Grigoli.

2009 seized €200 million from construction tycoon Francesco Pecora.

2010 seized €550 million from construction magnate, Rosario Cascio.

2010 seized €1.5 billion from businessman Vito Nicastri.

2018 seized €1.5 billion from businessman Carmelo Patti.

These are just some of the people that were working for Messina Denaro , during 2009-2010 police started seizing assets from people close to Messina Denaro believing that will lead to his capture , if they cut off his money supply.
CabriniGreen
Full Patched
Posts: 3110
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:09 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by CabriniGreen »

Strax wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:01 am
Liggio4 wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:58 pm First of all, Mafiosi are NOTORIOUS for claiming that they're not important and that they barely have any money, in an obvious show of false humility. Second of all, the proof is in the pudding, billions in assets tied to Matteo Messina Denaro have been seized over the years, there's been traces of his presence in several other countries, all while remaining a fugitive for over 3 decades. You don't achieve that without having some serious, and I emphasize serious here, money.
2008 seized €700 million from supermarket magnate Giuseppe Grigoli.

2009 seized €200 million from construction tycoon Francesco Pecora.

2010 seized €550 million from construction magnate, Rosario Cascio.

2010 seized €1.5 billion from businessman Vito Nicastri.

2018 seized €1.5 billion from businessman Carmelo Patti.

These are just some of the people that were working for Messina Denaro , during 2009-2010 police started seizing assets from people close to Messina Denaro believing that will lead to his capture , if they cut off his money supply.
Lol... I seriously doubt it's HIS money. More like these people placed themselves at his disposal. I suspect these people are like what Ponte was to the Genovese family......

Sometimes yall gotta think about it a little. He's been on the run forever, where does he get the time and space to build 4 or 5 multibillion dollar operations? I mean... come on....

When the rest of the mafia is having cash flow issues?
If he has a access to a billion dollars, why are the Inzerillos and Riccobono hiers so coveted right now?
Why the big deal over their untouched fortunes? And these are modest fortunes too...nothing huge like billions ... well I don't know about the Inzerillos...maybe?

Take the wind stuff. My understanding was that wind farms were turning a 20% profit every year, due to government subsidies. So Denaro ordered his people to get into wind, FOR THE SUBSIDIES monies.

This to me, isn't much different than the Inzerillos telling Micalizzi to "Find a company, a farm" so they can apply for the 10 million in subsidies thst are 80 % guranteed.


I can't recall how many times I've read about gambling operations that serve to fund Denaros life on the run. If he has a Billion he can touch, why is the revenue of the organization being used to support him?

I just don't really buy it...
User avatar
Strax
Straightened out
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:55 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by Strax »

CabriniGreen wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:20 am When the rest of the mafia is having cash flow issues?
Rest of the mafia in Sicily is having cash flow issues ? There are multi-million seizures of assets every few months and huge increase of cocaine seizures this year too , on March 17th there were 2 tons of cocaine seized near Catania, then we had largest cocaine seizure in Italy last month , when 5 tons of cocaine were seized in southern coast of Sicily. You need to have a shit load of money to be on the run for 30 + years,have surgery in Barcelona and what not. Of course they are not nowhere near the level they were in the 80's but to say they have cash flow issues , i don't know maybe you are right.
CabriniGreen wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:20 am Sometimes yall gotta think about it a little. He's been on the run forever, where does he get the time and space to build 4 or 5 multibillion dollar operations? I mean... come on....
Riina and Provenzano were also on the run and they built largest empire ever in Sicilia mafia , it means nothing to these guys.
LarryC
Straightened out
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:25 pm

Re: News from Italy

Post by LarryC »

Sicily doesn’t have cash flow problems. Far from it. Just take a look at the latest seizures. And they are being funded with cartel money.
CabriniGreen
Full Patched
Posts: 3110
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:09 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by CabriniGreen »

Strax wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:36 am
CabriniGreen wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:20 am When the rest of the mafia is having cash flow issues?
Rest of the mafia in Sicily is having cash flow issues ? There are multi-million seizures of assets every few months and huge increase of cocaine seizures this year too , on March 17th there were 2 tons of cocaine seized near Catania, then we had largest cocaine seizure in Italy last month , when 5 tons of cocaine were seized in southern coast of Sicily. You need to have a shit load of money to be on the run for 30 + years,have surgery in Barcelona and what not. Of course they are not nowhere near the level they were in the 80's but to say they have cash flow issues , i don't know maybe you are right.
CabriniGreen wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:20 am Sometimes yall gotta think about it a little. He's been on the run forever, where does he get the time and space to build 4 or 5 multibillion dollar operations? I mean... come on....
Riina and Provenzano were also on the run and they built largest empire ever in Sicilia mafia , it means nothing to these guys.


The asset seizures are WHY there's cash flow issues. If you have been following this stuff, you know a lot of money is being paid out to prisoners families. It's going out as it's coming in.... it's an issue of ready liquidity. Again, this is why the Inzerillos, the heirs of Ricobonno, were able to assume/resume power in Palermo. Because they had money and contacts to invest, otherwise Rotolo would have killed yhe Inzerillos AND the LoPiccolos. Denaro was on board with everything the Inzerillos were doing. Why didn't HE provide seed capital? And all the contacts and all that? Because he was on the run since forever.....

The DIA has Pagliarelli as the richest family in Sicily. Do you agree? Richer than the Guttaduaro? Fidanzanti? Grecos? Or do they currently have the most readily availible liquidity, due to Gianni Nicchis initiative in the early 2000s?


When you see tons of cocaine, ALWAYS suspect the cartels, not the mafia. Because only the cartels can afford to lose such amounts. And if so, then it's a confederation of clans investing in it. There is no single Sicilian clan (or Ndrangheta....) capable of sourcing that much coke at once. The Caruanas were the last ones. And they were succeeded by Ndrangheta in the Italian cocaine trade.


The bolded part..... huge exaggeration there. Liggio was the business minded one. HE was actually said to be extremely wealthy. The Sicilian mafia is almost literally right back where it was in the 70s when Bontade and Inzerillo were the point men. The Corleonesi didn't accomplish anything really.
User avatar
Strax
Straightened out
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:55 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by Strax »

We can't know who is the richest family, they don't exactly keep their records public. Guttadauro's are insanely powerful , both in the mafia world and in legal world , "The Doctor" is member of freemasonry, he had meetings with both mafia members and politicians,doctors etc in his villa in Palermo, even with Cuffaro who was president of Sicily.

Money didn't actually save Inzerillos , police did , Rotolo asked Provenzano for approval to kill them , he even got acid barrels ready , but police arrested them all before anything could happen , it was huge success for police , especially because they were saying how they prevented new mafia war.

Of course cartels are behind 7 tons of cocaine seized this year in Sicily , and yes i agree with you that is confederation of clans investing , maybe even together with clans from 'Ndrangheta. But we didn't have seizures of this quantity before, so something is going on for sure , who knows how much went thru if police seized 7 tons.

Sicilian mafia is much much weaker than in the 70s, but they are trying to get back on that level. Corleonesi ruined everything with their war on state and terrorism, but also biggest power sicilian mafia ever had was in the 80s under Corleonesi.
scagghiuni
Full Patched
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:04 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by scagghiuni »

CabriniGreen wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:20 am When you see tons of cocaine, ALWAYS suspect the cartels, not the mafia. Because only the cartels can afford to lose such amounts. And if so, then it's a confederation of clans investing in it. There is no single Sicilian clan (or Ndrangheta....) capable of sourcing that much coke at once. The Caruanas were the last ones. And they were succeeded by Ndrangheta in the Italian cocaine trade.
if the cartels manage to send so much drugs it means that there is someone who buys it in Italy, the cartels do not act alone in Europe
User avatar
Wiseguy
Filthy Few
Posts: 9411
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:12 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by Wiseguy »

Can The Sicilian Mafia Keep Up With Cocaine Warlords Of Neighboring Calabria?
After the fall of the Sicilian Mafia boss of bosses Matteo Messina Denaro, it's time for Cosa Nostra to rebuild, and they'll be taking inspiration from their own past, but also must face the rising power of the 'ndrangheta in the neighboring region of Calabria
Giuseppe Legato
September 3, 2023



PALERMO — How is Cosa Nostra doing without its king?

Palermo prosecutor Maurizio Delucia takes a moment before offering his view on where the Sicilian Mafia may be heading. It's been a complicated period since even before — and especially after — the January arrest of the last top boss Matteo Messina Denaro, as the legendary Cosa Nostra clan has fallen behind the neighboring 'ndrangheta from the region of Calabria, in both wealth and power.

The Sicilian mob must now devise a kind of reset strategy two generations after its 1980s and 1990s war against the Italian state, which saw assassinations of magistrates and terror attacks with civilian casualties. All the members of the so-called "military wing" of Cosa Nostra are either dead or in prison.

"An organization that was impoverished before becoming strong militarily must subsequently become economically rich again," Delucia, head of the Palermo prosecutor's office, recently told the parliamentary anti-mafia commission.

That's the point to focus on. Since 1992, the bosses have been winding up in prison, a continuous action "unlike anything seen in the past." This offers real meaning (and weight) in the tortuous path of the century-long fight against organized crime because it "ended up undermining the sense of impunity on the one hand and created a vulnerability in the Mafia's thinking, based on the perception of the appeal for young generations to join," explained the prosecutor.

Still, despite the state's progress, this is a Mafia that Delucia believes is determined to reemerge in a new form — and stronger than before.

Ghost of cocaine past

Rewind to early June, when the cargo ship Plutus, flying the flag of Palau, set sail from the Caribbean port of Santo Domingo. On July 7th, it briefly docked in Las Palmas (Gran Canaria, Spain) before passing through the Strait of Gibraltar and heading towards Sicily.

Approaching the Italian coastline, more than one investigator tracking the seas noted that the cargo ship was making several course changes that had been flagged as routes reported by the maritime authorities. Strange. And then someone deactivated the detection system.

It was then that the fishing boat "Ferdinando di Aragona," which departed from the coast of Calabria, approached the ship. An order quickly came from the DDA (District Anti-Mafia Directorate) in Palermo, and Italy's finance police intervened. About 15 people were caught trying to transfer 5.3 tons of pure cocaine from one vessel to another.

The arrests and drug seizure, the second-largest ever made on Italian territory after the interception of 5.5 tons of the white gold in 1995 in Turin. Just as then, today too, the 'Ndrangheta is driving such trafficking.

Yet Delucia says recent investigations indicate that Cosa Nostra is "re-establishing and reopening relations with the Calabrian clans and pushing that (drug) imports are coordinated with them... Although the Calabrian mob has practically monopolize cocaine trafficking, it is equally evident that an organization like Cosa Nostra does not give up."

It's a business for everyone. The nostalgia for the glory days (and methods) of the past also emerges in a renewed control of drug distribution territories, which until recently were delegated to North African criminal organizations. Territory control never goes out of style.

Old faces make their return

The old saying "a volte ritornano" (sometimes they come back) applies not only to business channels but also to some families who emigrated to America during the bloody management of Cosa Nostra by Salvatore Riina in the 1980s and 1990s. They fled to escape a pending hit job or a death sentence issued as an edict by the most violent of the Corleonesi to annihilate internal resistance to Riina's climb to the pinnacle of mob power.

And now, far from the echoes of the guns of that era, old faces reappear, trying to regain their old power. The way to achieve it now is always the same: money. And there is nothing better than drug trafficking to level the playing field against those who have always been doing business in Sicily.

The Fascella family of Santa Maria del Gesù is one of the clans that appears to be back in Sicily, and back on the rise. In recent months, several members of the syndicate have been arrested, including the boss of Partanna Mondello, Michele Micalizzi (son-in-law of the boss Rosario Riccobono), and Salvatore Marsalone, who was one of the most trusted drug traffickers in the 1970s for the "prince" Stefano Bontade.

Mob encryption

The fight against the Mafia must also be waged with the best modern communication technology, since the bad guys are doing it too. Sicilian bosses buy encrypted mobile phones from the 'ndrangheta narcos. These phones have sophisticated software that is difficult to hack.

The Group for the Investigation of Organized Crime of the Italian Guardia di Finanza (Finance Police) managed to locate some encrypted phone numbers near the A20 Palermo-Messina highway just before the massive seizure of 5 tons of drugs.

These were Dutch numbers connected to the fast.m2m server, which allows information exchange through a network called "Machine to Machine (M2M)."

The Palermo prosecutor was clear on this point: "The mechanism of interceptions puts us at a certain disadvantage compared to the technological methods that the mafias use. We now have a series of important communications between mafiosi that take place on encrypted platforms, and we are lagging behind. Some European police forces have managed to get into them, but we haven't yet."

Among the other difficulties that Delucia sees is "a decrease in informants both in terms of quality and quantity." Though the arrest in January of Messina Denaro was a great victory for the state, don't count on the jailed boss of bosses from ever collaborating with investigators.

https://worldcrunch.com/culture-society ... ndrangheta
All roads lead to New York.
CabriniGreen
Full Patched
Posts: 3110
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:09 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by CabriniGreen »

Wiseguy wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 9:05 am Can The Sicilian Mafia Keep Up With Cocaine Warlords Of Neighboring Calabria?
After the fall of the Sicilian Mafia boss of bosses Matteo Messina Denaro, it's time for Cosa Nostra to rebuild, and they'll be taking inspiration from their own past, but also must face the rising power of the 'ndrangheta in the neighboring region of Calabria
Giuseppe Legato
September 3, 2023



PALERMO — How is Cosa Nostra doing without its king?

Palermo prosecutor Maurizio Delucia takes a moment before offering his view on where the Sicilian Mafia may be heading. It's been a complicated period since even before — and especially after — the January arrest of the last top boss Matteo Messina Denaro, as the legendary Cosa Nostra clan has fallen behind the neighboring 'ndrangheta from the region of Calabria, in both wealth and power.

The Sicilian mob must now devise a kind of reset strategy two generations after its 1980s and 1990s war against the Italian state, which saw assassinations of magistrates and terror attacks with civilian casualties. All the members of the so-called "military wing" of Cosa Nostra are either dead or in prison.

"An organization that was impoverished before becoming strong militarily must subsequently become economically rich again," Delucia, head of the Palermo prosecutor's office, recently told the parliamentary anti-mafia commission.

That's the point to focus on. Since 1992, the bosses have been winding up in prison, a continuous action "unlike anything seen in the past." This offers real meaning (and weight) in the tortuous path of the century-long fight against organized crime because it "ended up undermining the sense of impunity on the one hand and created a vulnerability in the Mafia's thinking, based on the perception of the appeal for young generations to join," explained the prosecutor.

Still, despite the state's progress, this is a Mafia that Delucia believes is determined to reemerge in a new form — and stronger than before.

Ghost of cocaine past

Rewind to early June, when the cargo ship Plutus, flying the flag of Palau, set sail from the Caribbean port of Santo Domingo. On July 7th, it briefly docked in Las Palmas (Gran Canaria, Spain) before passing through the Strait of Gibraltar and heading towards Sicily.

Approaching the Italian coastline, more than one investigator tracking the seas noted that the cargo ship was making several course changes that had been flagged as routes reported by the maritime authorities. Strange. And then someone deactivated the detection system.

It was then that the fishing boat "Ferdinando di Aragona," which departed from the coast of Calabria, approached the ship. An order quickly came from the DDA (District Anti-Mafia Directorate) in Palermo, and Italy's finance police intervened. About 15 people were caught trying to transfer 5.3 tons of pure cocaine from one vessel to another.

The arrests and drug seizure, the second-largest ever made on Italian territory after the interception of 5.5 tons of the white gold in 1995 in Turin. Just as then, today too, the 'Ndrangheta is driving such trafficking.

Yet Delucia says recent investigations indicate that Cosa Nostra is "re-establishing and reopening relations with the Calabrian clans and pushing that (drug) imports are coordinated with them... Although the Calabrian mob has practically monopolize cocaine trafficking, it is equally evident that an organization like Cosa Nostra does not give up."

It's a business for everyone. The nostalgia for the glory days (and methods) of the past also emerges in a renewed control of drug distribution territories, which until recently were delegated to North African criminal organizations. Territory control never goes out of style.

Old faces make their return

The old saying "a volte ritornano" (sometimes they come back) applies not only to business channels but also to some families who emigrated to America during the bloody management of Cosa Nostra by Salvatore Riina in the 1980s and 1990s. They fled to escape a pending hit job or a death sentence issued as an edict by the most violent of the Corleonesi to annihilate internal resistance to Riina's climb to the pinnacle of mob power.

And now, far from the echoes of the guns of that era, old faces reappear, trying to regain their old power. The way to achieve it now is always the same: money. And there is nothing better than drug trafficking to level the playing field against those who have always been doing business in Sicily.

The Fascella family of Santa Maria del Gesù is one of the clans that appears to be back in Sicily, and back on the rise. In recent months, several members of the syndicate have been arrested, including the boss of Partanna Mondello, Michele Micalizzi (son-in-law of the boss Rosario Riccobono), and Salvatore Marsalone, who was one of the most trusted drug traffickers in the 1970s for the "prince" Stefano Bontade.

Mob encryption

The fight against the Mafia must also be waged with the best modern communication technology, since the bad guys are doing it too. Sicilian bosses buy encrypted mobile phones from the 'ndrangheta narcos. These phones have sophisticated software that is difficult to hack.

The Group for the Investigation of Organized Crime of the Italian Guardia di Finanza (Finance Police) managed to locate some encrypted phone numbers near the A20 Palermo-Messina highway just before the massive seizure of 5 tons of drugs.

These were Dutch numbers connected to the fast.m2m server, which allows information exchange through a network called "Machine to Machine (M2M)."

The Palermo prosecutor was clear on this point: "The mechanism of interceptions puts us at a certain disadvantage compared to the technological methods that the mafias use. We now have a series of important communications between mafiosi that take place on encrypted platforms, and we are lagging behind. Some European police forces have managed to get into them, but we haven't yet."

Among the other difficulties that Delucia sees is "a decrease in informants both in terms of quality and quantity." Though the arrest in January of Messina Denaro was a great victory for the state, don't count on the jailed boss of bosses from ever collaborating with investigators.

https://worldcrunch.com/culture-society ... ndrangheta
Good post. Article pretty much reinforced what I was trying to say about Sicily today.

I don't know if the guys think I'm making it up or what....
CabriniGreen
Full Patched
Posts: 3110
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:09 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by CabriniGreen »

LarryC wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:07 pm Sicily doesn’t have cash flow problems. Far from it. Just take a look at the latest seizures. And they are being funded with cartel money.
No cartel bankrolls Cosa Nostra...lol

I don't know what the hell yall be talking about sometimes.....
AntComello
Full Patched
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:54 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by AntComello »

CabriniGreen wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:19 am
LarryC wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:07 pm Sicily doesn’t have cash flow problems. Far from it. Just take a look at the latest seizures. And they are being funded with cartel money.
No cartel bankrolls Cosa Nostra...lol

I don't know what the hell yall be talking about sometimes.....
Are you saying ndrangheta and cosa nostra put their money together for these large shipments?
That’s the guy, Adriana. My Uncle Tony. The guy I’m going to hell for.
Etna
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:06 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by Etna »

AntComello wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 9:36 am
CabriniGreen wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:19 am
LarryC wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:07 pm Sicily doesn’t have cash flow problems. Far from it. Just take a look at the latest seizures. And they are being funded with cartel money.
No cartel bankrolls Cosa Nostra...lol

I don't know what the hell yall be talking about sometimes.....
Are you saying ndrangheta and cosa nostra put their money together for these large shipments?
Why wouldn't they? They are all in it for one reason and seem to mutually respect each other's territory. Maybe they ship to Gioia Tauro for instance but the bank roll of funds is funded by clans in Calabria, Naples & Sicily. You never really know. Maybe Calabria is doing the work because the Sicilians need a break. I think it's very possible that other clans in Sicily have plenty of money. Hell, even the Stidda could be in on some of this.
AntComello
Full Patched
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:54 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by AntComello »

Etna wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 9:53 am
AntComello wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 9:36 am
CabriniGreen wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:19 am
LarryC wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:07 pm Sicily doesn’t have cash flow problems. Far from it. Just take a look at the latest seizures. And they are being funded with cartel money.
No cartel bankrolls Cosa Nostra...lol

I don't know what the hell yall be talking about sometimes.....
Are you saying ndrangheta and cosa nostra put their money together for these large shipments?
Why wouldn't they? They are all in it for one reason and seem to mutually respect each other's territory. Maybe they ship to Gioia Tauro for instance but the bank roll of funds is funded by clans in Calabria, Naples & Sicily. You never really know. Maybe Calabria is doing the work because the Sicilians need a break. I think it's very possible that other clans in Sicily have plenty of money. Hell, even the Stidda could be in on some of this.

I don’t disagree at all just wanted to make sure I understood it correctly.
That’s the guy, Adriana. My Uncle Tony. The guy I’m going to hell for.
LarryC
Straightened out
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:25 pm

Re: News from Italy

Post by LarryC »

Not only the Calabrians and Sicilians work together on these huge drug shipments but yes, cartels are also funding it. All you have to do is turn on rai or any Italian news outlet. Either you know or you don’t. Or go to Italy. it’s common knowledge what’s going on.
CabriniGreen
Full Patched
Posts: 3110
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:09 am

Re: News from Italy

Post by CabriniGreen »

LarryC wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:11 pm Not only the Calabrians and Sicilians work together on these huge drug shipments but yes, cartels are also funding it. All you have to do is turn on rai or any Italian news outlet. Either you know or you don’t. Or go to Italy. it’s common knowledge what’s going on.
Bro... are they putting their money together to fund shipments, or is the Cartel......SUBSIDIZING the mafia?

Is that what you are trying to say?

Lets try not to confuse mafia initiatives with cartel initiatives....

In general, the cartels want market share in Europe. Did you see the thing in Spain? 9.5 TONNES my man! Biggest seizure ever, it was going to 30 different organizations...like bruh... are they bankrolling them ALL? No organization EXCEPT the cartels can afford to lose that much coke....

Come on now...
Post Reply