Major Independent Gambling Organizations (Non-LCN)

[JCB1977]

Hey Everybody,

I thought this topic would be great for discussion. I would love to learn more about illegal gambling organizations that were not LCN but still operated in or around a territory where an LCN family existed. I am going to post a few organizations that I know of who were not LCN but still carried quite a bit of power and corruption in their respected areas.

[JCB1977]

Anthony "Tony" Grosso of Pittsburgh had one of the largest numbers operations in the country that employed over 3000 numbers writers and grossed over $30 million dollars per year and had an agreement with John LaRocca not to pay tribute to the Pittsburgh LCN as long as he shared all of his political and law enforcement connections for the LaRocca Family . When Anthony M. “Tony” Grosso was indicted in 1972 for conspiracy and operating a large-scale gambling ring, he was the acknowledged numbers baron in Pittsburgh and other portions of Allegheny County. Reportedly, Grosso’s trial revealed that between $30 and $40 million was generated annually and that the operation employed between 3,000 and 5,000 street workers. To run such a massive enterprise, he made payoffs to political and law enforcement officials. The extent of Grosso’s regular system of payoffs was revealed following his indictment – included were officials as important as the Allegheny County district attorney. Former Allegheny County detective, Samuel Ferraro, testified that he received payoffs while acting as the “bagman,” or money courier, for the district attorney and turned over the district attorney and others more than $300,000. Grosso was convicted in 1973 and given a 10 year sentence and fined $250,000. He was paroled in 1975, ostensibly because of his cooperation with the federal government in its investigation of gambling and political corruption in western Pennsylvania. Convicted with Grosso were his brother and bookkeeper, Samuel J.; his nephew, Joseph C.; and Philomena “Minnie” Viola, who notified numbers writers of the winning number. The IRS attempted to prosecute Grosso, but Grosso appealed the matter to the United States Supreme Court and won. The court decided in the late 1960s, in what became known as the Grosso-Marchetti decision, that the use of a personal income tax statement to prosecute a violation of the criminal law itself violated the Fifth Amendment.

Grosso was convicted again in the mid 1980's and Bobby Iannelli and the Williams brothers (Junior, Sal & Eugene) took over his operation and split it down the middle. Here are some good articles on Tony Grosso, who the moveie with John Travolta called Lucky Numbers weas loosely based off of.

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1985/Convi ... 51a8bc560a

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2 ... 38,3700077

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 35,7396499

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 40,5631440

[Italianheritage]

Grosso was connected with the mob in PGH. He did pay some sort of tribute, or they took some percentage of money.

[JCB1977]

No they did not and no he didn't kick up. That is widely known. The people that assumed control over his organization were the Williams brothers and Bobby Iannelli. Go read the Pennsylvania Crime Commission Reports from 1970's through 1990 and look up his case law files.

I'm done speaking about this and I will not debate it with you, we've gone through this old song and dance, so please don't derail the thread. If you want to contribute pertinent information about the subject, I have no gripes.

[Italianheritage]

No they did not and no he didn't kick up. That is widely known. The people that assumed control over his organization were the Williams brothers and Bobby Iannelli. Go read the Pennsylvania Crime Commission Reports from 1970's through 1990 and look up his case law files.

I'm done speaking about this and I will not debate it with you, we've gone through this old song and dance, so please don't derail the thread. If you want to contribute pertinent information about the subject, I have no gripes.

You're contradicting yourself.

The reports can claim all they want that he wasn't connected to the PGH mob but everyone both people who were connected to the PGH mob, or just connected to Grosso and who lived in PGH knows that he was connected to the PGH mob, and that the PGH mob did take some of his earnings as that's how it worked.

[JCB1977]

No they did not and no he didn't kick up. That is widely known. The people that assumed control over his organization were the Williams brothers and Bobby Iannelli. Go read the Pennsylvania Crime Commission Reports from 1970's through 1990 and look up his case law files.

I'm done speaking about this and I will not debate it with you, we've gone through this old song and dance, so please don't derail the thread. If you want to contribute pertinent information about the subject, I have no gripes.

You're contradicting yourself.

The reports can claim all they want that he wasn't connected to the PGH mob but everyone both people who were connected to the PGH mob, or just connected to Grosso and who lived in PGH knows that he was connected to the PGH mob, and that the PGH mob did take some of his earnings as that's how it worked.

Since you are the expert on the topic, I'll take your word. Thanks for clearing that up, you should write a book.

[Lou_Para]

I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.

[Angelo Santino]

I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.

From what I've found, and I'm not even close to the level JCB and yourself are on this era, those guys from the Hill were national independent operators. They laid off extra business to the mob in a mutually beneficial relationship. If Amato or La Rocca were to have put pressure on Grosso/I, nothing would have stopped them from moving elsewhere and still being able to run a national gambling ring. And had that happened, Amato and La Rocca would have been financially impacted in the blowback.

It's amazing the Hill didn't carry on, I guess too many blacks moved in there in the 20's and white flight occurred sending the I-tals eastward, there was a black crime boss who ran bootlegging and speakeasies in the Hill in the 20's and 30's. Go back in time 20 years and Wylie Avenue was all Catanzaresi, now it's a stadium.

[Lou_Para]

Check out this link that outlines singer Lena Horne's connection to Pittsburgh's Hill District .
It contains some cool info about her father,(a pretty big deal in the underworld), as well as some basic stuff about the black rackets and legit businesses of the day.

https://sites.google.com/site/pittsburg ... lena-horne

[JCB1977]

I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.

Hey Lou,

I agree 100% and it has been confirmed at both of his trials as well as the trial of Joe Sica back in 1975. I don't argue with Italian Haritage, there is no point if you catch my drift.

EVERYBODY from the Pittsburgh/Youngstown/Cleveland area knows that TG was independent of LCN and that was approved by Amato/LaRocca as long as TG shared the political clout that he had. It makes me laugh that people say Bobby I is made...he enjoyed his own operation without the bullshit LCN brings. Anyhow Lou, don't even waste your breath explaining anything to Italian Haritage, not worth your time.

[JCB1977]

Check out this link that outlines singer Lena Horne's connection to Pittsburgh's Hill District .
It contains some cool info about her father,(a pretty big deal in the underworld), as well as some basic stuff about the black rackets and legit businesses of the day.

https://sites.google.com/site/pittsburg ... lena-horne

Fantastic article, thanks for sharing. Lou, what do you think about Junior on that new reality show Godfather of Pittsburgh? Also, do you have photos of Salvatore & Eugene Williams? Pm me buddy, thanks.

[Angelo Santino]

Check out this link that outlines singer Lena Horne's connection to Pittsburgh's Hill District .
It contains some cool info about her father,(a pretty big deal in the underworld), as well as some basic stuff about the black rackets and legit businesses of the day.

https://sites.google.com/site/pittsburg ... lena-horne

Fantastic article, thanks for sharing. Lou, what do you think about Junior on that new reality show Godfather of Pittsburgh? Also, do you have photos of Salvatore & Eugene Williams? Pm me buddy, thanks.

Agreed.

I was thinking of William "Gus" Greenlee. He was the black kingpin of the Hill, same area TG (I'll use that) operated in.

[JCB1977]

Grosso had the entire city of Pittsburgh, not just the Hill. The Hill District was just a working class section of Pittsburgh, the African Americans flooded the area in record numbers after the collapse of the steel industry. Grosso was arguably the largest illegal gambling operation in the country. Here's a few nice piece on him:


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 08,4095303


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 16,7432452

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/24822162/


https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitiz ... 7NCJRS.pdf (1975-76) PA Report on OC

[Angelo Santino]

So apart from some major national gambling operators, the Volpe bros of Wilmderding got their start separately correct? Not wanting to toe the line with Bazzano this lead to a dispute. After Amato took over he made peace and let them also function independently. Although some later got made in the 60's?

[Italianheritage]

I am Italian,born and raised in the Pittsburgh area,and have some knowledge of the local numbers racket from back in the Grosso and Bobby I. days. My father and uncle were,respectively,small and mid-level numbers operators.

Let me continue to beat two dead horses.

1) Tony Grosso did not kick up to "The Mafia" to protect his business.
2) Bobby was never a "made " guy.

Don't get me wrong, lots of money and favors got tossed back and forth among the local boys,but as far as Grosso having anyone above him who took a piece of his business,it just wasn't so.
Of course, I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on this subject,but if anyone can produce any evidence or documentation to the contrary,I would love to see it.

Grosso was not "made" but he was an associate of the PGH mob, so therefore he was connected.