Present Day Chicago Outfit

[Confederate]

I think your right about the video machines and it would make sense as you don't need a ton of agents managing gambling packages and thus is a way to make big $ in gambling without the additional security risk , that makes sense to me , NY just does both ad they are $ whores .

Blue collar and white collar are placing sports / horse bets the same way today , online or a call center in Costa Rica with an agent that you settle up with .

Sports gambling is attractive for prosecutors as no way can you operate in that business without a cell, plus they can follow the $ to see who the capos or admin is and once you have a physical threat on a dead beat , your talking about real time for soldiers (2-3+ years ) and it's great for the papers and getting some made guys off the street .

I highly doubt the Outfit is managing large gambling packages as a bust would have definately happened , probably for security reasons as you open your crew up , they seem content with controlling the video poker as the machine replaces the agents and thus you only need a guy or 2 you trust to make the collections with the bar owner and it's cash up front so you can't get jammed up with violence . Ny cases show you they will kidnap you to settles debts lol.

The outfit seems more disciplined and it's probably cuz there is less competition and they are content making very good $ whereas NY is stilll the wild Wild West to some extent and they just can't pass up making that quick $ and build all the $ and time costs into their operation . They cool chilling in jail for a couple years to pull it that extra $ and plus usually customers are sticky so when you locked up you can have someone servicing your clients until your back home . Hope that makes sense lol, sorry but everyone is a bookmaker or agent around me

great post & very spot on

The only problem with this theory is that the Outfit DOES NOT control video poker machines. THE STATE OF ILLINOIS controls all 24,000 machines Statewide and the manufacturing and the distribution of the machines is ALL OVERSEEN BY THE GAMING COMMSSION.

[smoker]

Some more younger gen names mentioned on the GangsterBB forum:

Dom Montagna
Steve Porino
Andy Rovito
Nick Ruggio
Pete LaBalestra
Tony Carcione

[Snakes]

The problem with identifying made members is that the indictments don't even identify them as such. In all but the Family Secrets case, the defendants were indicted as part of a "crew" and not named as Outfit members but members of the Carlisi crew, Ferriola crew, Calabrese crew, etc. I believe that this is because they are not able to gather information about made members as accurately as they are in New York. This could be because they limit the amount of members and don't divulge who is made to anyone outside of the organization. Seeing that they have only had one made member testify in a criminal case (no coincidence that it was the only one that identified the defendants as "made"), this doesn't make for a surprising revelation.

[smoker]

The problem with identifying made members is that the indictments don't even identify them as such. In all but the Family Secrets case, the defendants were indicted as part of a "crew" and not named as Outfit members but members of the Carlisi crew, Ferriola crew, Calabrese crew, etc. I believe that this is because they are not able to gather information about made members as accurately as they are in New York. This could be because they limit the amount of members and don't divulge who is made to anyone outside of the organization. Seeing that they have only had one made member testify in a criminal case (no coincidence that it was the only one that identified the defendants as "made"), this doesn't make for a surprising revelation.

bingo. all that needs to be said regarding that ridiculous topic.

[Snakes]

Some other notes:

I think the Heights are done as a crew. Nick Guzzino would be an obvious choice to boss that territory but he's not even active anymore. Anything that is done down there is probably overseen by Chinatown or Cicero.

Big Mike Sarno was indicted, tried, and convicted with the Outfit barely even being mentioned in the process. I think the feds purposely choose not to mention the Outfit or LCN because it's simpler to just say Sarno ran a criminal crew (LCN or not) without having to drag the mafia into it. Of course the papers still run headlines describing Sarno as a mob boss but the feds found his LCN ties irrelevant to obtaining a conviction.

[Snakes]

Also, the speculations in this thread aren't as preposterous as some I've seen in the past. Thanks to guys like Villain, Antilliar, and others, we have a better understanding of the Outfit and can engage in more educated discussions. This is much better than some of the textual vomit that made it onto Fosco's ANP website. I remember a guy listed a group of Outfit sleepers from the nineties and had Joe freakin' Spadavecchio on it. A guy whose Outfit connections were well-known going back three decades and had even gone to prison in an Outfit bookmaking bust! Not exactly a good definition of a sleeper.

[cavita]

I think I remember reading that Al Tornabene was described as a "sleeper" and it surprised a lot of people when it was found out how high in the organization he actually was. Looking back, I don't think I even saw his name on any previous charts by the government.

[smoker]

Also, the speculations in this thread aren't as preposterous as some I've seen in the past. Thanks to guys like Villain, Antilliar, and others, we have a better understanding of the Outfit and can engage in more educated discussions. This is much better than some of the textual vomit that made it onto Fosco's ANP website. I remember a guy listed a group of Outfit sleepers from the nineties and had Joe freakin' Spadavecchio on it. A guy whose Outfit connections were well-known going back three decades and had even gone to prison in an Outfit bookmaking bust! Not exactly a good definition of a sleeper.

not like there hasn't been plenty of redundancy within this thread, but at least people aren't bitching over nonsense like some of the other threads I was perusing here seem to degenerate into.

the poster ChiTown on the GangsterBB forum is a very informative user.

[Snakes]

I think I remember reading that Al Tornabene was described as a "sleeper" and it surprised a lot of people when it was found out how high in the organization he actually was. Looking back, I don't think I even saw his name on any previous charts by the government.

I think he was always looked at as a minor gambling figure in Melrose Park. Carlisi was in the same boat but was recognized as someone of relative importance because of his association with Aiuppa. Even then, he was looked at as a gopher or driver and I think a lot of people were surprised when it came out that he was boss.

I can't speak for his posting years ago when he was under different handles but yes, ChiTown is a good poster.

[Wiseguy]

The problem with identifying made members is that the indictments don't even identify them as such. In all but the Family Secrets case, the defendants were indicted as part of a "crew" and not named as Outfit members but members of the Carlisi crew, Ferriola crew, Calabrese crew, etc. I believe that this is because they are not able to gather information about made members as accurately as they are in New York. This could be because they limit the amount of members and don't divulge who is made to anyone outside of the organization. Seeing that they have only had one made member testify in a criminal case (no coincidence that it was the only one that identified the defendants as "made"), this doesn't make for a surprising revelation.

Well that's assuming Nick Calabrese was the only one giving them info on made members when others have been informants for the feds for years. Obviously the 28 members the feds mentioned back in 2007 didn't just come out of thin air. And that figure one official said was very close to the 25 or 30 member estimates that 2 or 3 other officials said in the years around that time. Of course it's possible not every made member has been identified but I doubt it's a significant number flying under the radar.

[Pogo The Clown]

the poster ChiTown on the GangsterBB forum is a very informative user.

If it is the same guy who used to post as Fratto (among many other names) he has been exposed as liar and bullshitter. An Outfit groupie who simply tries to inflate and cheer on his hometown family. I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.


Pogo

[Snakes]

The problem with identifying made members is that the indictments don't even identify them as such. In all but the Family Secrets case, the defendants were indicted as part of a "crew" and not named as Outfit members but members of the Carlisi crew, Ferriola crew, Calabrese crew, etc. I believe that this is because they are not able to gather information about made members as accurately as they are in New York. This could be because they limit the amount of members and don't divulge who is made to anyone outside of the organization. Seeing that they have only had one made member testify in a criminal case (no coincidence that it was the only one that identified the defendants as "made"), this doesn't make for a surprising revelation.

Well that's assuming Nick Calabrese was the only one giving them info on made members when others have been informants for the feds for years. Obviously the 28 members the feds mentioned back in 2007 didn't just come out of thin air. And that figure one official said was very close to the 25 or 30 member estimates that 2 or 3 other officials said in the years around that time. Of course it's possible not every made member has been identified but I doubt it's a significant number flying under the radar.

I think the major difference is that one is a statement based on intelligence estimates and the other is identifying someone as a "made member" in a court of law.

[Confederate]

Isn't there a difference between being a made member of the Nationwide Costa Nostra versus being a member of the Outfit?
Gus Alex would not be a made member of the Mafia but was certainly a high ranking member of the Outfit. I would think any full time crew member who took his orders directly from a superior in his crew would be considered an Outfit member. Maybe that's where there is some grey area sometimes in the indictments with their descriptions of crew members.

[smoker]

the poster ChiTown on the GangsterBB forum is a very informative user.

If it is the same guy who used to post as Fratto (among many other names) he has been exposed as liar and bullshitter. An Outfit groupie who simply tries to inflate and cheer on his hometown family. I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.


Pogo

no idea who the guy you're referring to is, I haven't been reading these forums for very long.

But the poster ChiTown in GangsterBB is obviously a neighborhood guy & drops some very interesting names. One of the very (very) few individuals who are knowledgeable on current street level stuff & post online.

[smoker]

Isn't there a difference between being a made member of the Nationwide Costa Nostra versus being a member of the Outfit?
Gus Alex would not be a made member of the Mafia but was certainly a high ranking member of the Outfit. I would think any full time crew member who took his orders directly from a superior in his crew would be considered an Outfit member. Maybe that's where there is some grey area sometimes in the indictments with their descriptions of crew members.

Being made into the Outfit holds more weight than it does on the East Coast. And as I stated previously, a capo within the Outfit is comparable to a boss out East.

Gus Alex's power & influence was overstated IMO. He was a valuable piece for them, no doubt, but he wasn't considered one of the boys a la Aleman or The German.