20s to 90s Chicago had almost 200 made members?

[Fughedaboutit]

Or maybe you need to check your facts. The outfit only got down to 75 guys around the year 2000 and kept dwindling due to the fact difronzo didn't wanna make guys anymore. 20's through the 90's they had anywhere from 125 to close to 200 at their peak. Easily bigger than every family in the us besides the genovese and gambinos. The only families that ever had 200 were the genovese and gambinos. So you are saying all of the five families had 200 guys a piece? Sorry but you have no idea what your talking about

According to Pete...

I cant even recall a point where they approached 100

Can someone provide this list?

[Fughedaboutit]

Pete...

Post your list of the close to 200 made members in Chicago

If you cant, leave the board....

[Antiliar]

An informant around 1960 said there were around 300 made members. The FBI had around half as many names.

[Wiseguy]

This probably could have been continued in the original thread.

Anyway, this is where you get into the oft-debated question of what constitutes an Outfit member. And that ties into yet another question - when the Outfit started using the formal initiation ceremony. Whenever it actually started using the blood and fire oath, obviously it made a distinction between members and otherwise prior to that.

Even with the more precise membership definitions in New York, the estimates become less reliable the further you go back in time. So, membership figures from Chicago going way back are questionable, to say the least.

As far as the 1990s go, which was certainly after they started using the traditional ceremony, the CCC had the Outfit at around 70 members in the late 1990's. If I rember right, Little Al (who many will remember from the RD forum years ago) said the FBI released a list of 47 members to the local press in 1999. Considering the feds had the Outfit at 28 members by 2007, that 47 figure was likely more accurate.

[Fughedaboutit]

This probably could have been continued in the original thread.

Anyway, this is where you get into the oft-debated question of what constitutes an Outfit member. And that ties into yet another question - when the Outfit started using the formal initiation ceremony. Whenever it actually started using the blood and fire oath, obviously it made a distinction between members and otherwise prior to that.

Even with the more precise membership definitions in New York, the estimates become less reliable the further you go back in time. So, membership figures from Chicago going way back are questionable, to say the least.

As far as the 1990s go, which was certainly after they started using the traditional ceremony, the CCC had the Outfit at around 70 members in the late 1990's. If I rember right, Little Al (who many will remember from the RD forum years ago) said the FBI released a list of 47 members to the local press in 1999. Considering the feds had the Outfit at 28 members by 2007, that 47 figure was likely more accurate.

I knew my reliable numbers man Wiseguy would enter lol

So 70 at the peak and never hit triple digits?

It sounded like a completely ridiculous claim, I was just double checking to make sure I wasn't wrong somewhere.

[BillyBrizzi]

Did you read what Antiliar said? Informant had them at 300 in 1960 and the feds had them at half, being 150, so Pete's claims aren't that ridiculous.

[Snakes]

Some of those numbers aren't reliable, but I'd say at their peak, their membership was roughly on par with the three smaller NY families - if only for a decade or less.

[cavita]

The Outfit's strength has always been in the number of their associates and how they utilize them

[Fughedaboutit]

Did you read what Antiliar said? Informant had them at 300 in 1960 and the feds had them at half, being 150, so Pete's claims aren't that ridiculous.

He said through the 90s, they had 125-200

While the CCC, had stated 70.

He over doubled the number.

Absolutely ridiculous and outlandish imo.

[Fughedaboutit]

The Outfit's strength has always been in the number of their associates and how they utilize them

That's irrelevant and not is what is being discussed.

[Fughedaboutit]

Did you read what Antiliar said? Informant had them at 300 in 1960 and the feds had them at half, being 150, so Pete's claims aren't that ridiculous.

So would it be okay for me to say...

The modern day Genovese family has around 400 made members?

[cavita]

The Outfit's strength has always been in the number of their associates and how they utilize them

That's irrelevant and not is what is being discussed.

It's my opinion, it deals with the Outfit and is an observation on the state of their family so I feel it's relevant. I don't attack posters on this board no matter what they post so I'd appreciate it if I wasn't jumped for stating an honest opinion.

[Wiseguy]

Though it may not have been clear in how he phrased it, I think Pete was saying the Outfit had 200 at its peak. But I don't think Pete is saying the peak was in the 1990s. The Outfit having 125 members in the 1990s is unlikely given the info we have. And I'm not saying 70 was their peak. That's just what the Chicago Crime Commission estimated in 1997. The Outfit likely had more members in previous decades. Now how big had they been in the 50s, 60s, 70s? That's up for debate and it's hard to pin down.

[Fughedaboutit]

The Outfit's strength has always been in the number of their associates and how they utilize them

That's irrelevant and not is what is being discussed.

It's my opinion, it deals with the Outfit and is an observation on the state of their family so I feel it's relevant. I don't attack posters on this board no matter what they post so I'd appreciate it if I wasn't jumped for stating an honest opinion.

Nobody jumped you. You made an irrelevant point when we were trying to pin down made members.

Associates or where the Outfit got their power is not the purpose of this thread.

Feel free to start your own if you want to take the discussion in that direction.

[Fughedaboutit]

Though it may not have been clear in how he phrased it, I think Pete was saying the Outfit had 200 at its peak. But I don't think Pete is saying the peak was in the 1990s. The Outfit having 125 members in the 1990s is unlikely given the info we have. And I'm not saying 70 was their peak. That's just what the Chicago Crime Commission estimated in 1997. The Outfit likely had more members in previous decades. Now how big had they been in the 50s, 60s, 70s? That's up for debate and it's hard to pin down.

Well then he needs to be more clear.

I know he knows the outfit fairly well, that is why I was shocked when I read that statement.

I am more focusing on his statement regarding the 90's since it is a bit more clear than earlier periods of time and there is more to go off of.