Younger (blood) family members exceeding older member in rank

[Pogo The Clown]

Carmine Persico and Gene Gotti were of course made before their older brothers. Same with Joey Pungitore.


Pogo

[B.]

In terms of present day stuff, Dominic Grande outranks his uncles Joseph Grande and Salvatore Piccolo. We also know that Piccolo was a member of his nephew's crew. The Stefanelli transcripts could indicate that Joseph Grande was assigned to Michael Lancellotti when he was released from prison (he took Lancellotti with him to meet with Nicky Scarfo Jr - the Scarfos offered to make him a capo if he went along with their plan to take the family back). If Dominic Grande took over Lancellotti's crew or was given a portion of it, it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that perhaps Joseph Grande was assigned to him. Both Grandes went to court together to see Piccolo get sentenced. We also know from the Persiano-Piccolo stuff that Grande's crew was active in South Jersey (and before that, Lancellotti and Anthony Nicodemo had the gambling operation in Atlantic City). Now geography isn't always a sure and steadfast method of establishing what crew someone reports to, but Joseph Grande also lives in South Jersey (Blackwood) according to the White Pages.

Lancelotti was at the meeting with Joe Grande and Scarfo Jr.? New info to me, great to know. Sounds like Grande was trying to keep the situation above board.

[chin_gigante]

In terms of present day stuff, Dominic Grande outranks his uncles Joseph Grande and Salvatore Piccolo. We also know that Piccolo was a member of his nephew's crew. The Stefanelli transcripts could indicate that Joseph Grande was assigned to Michael Lancellotti when he was released from prison (he took Lancellotti with him to meet with Nicky Scarfo Jr - the Scarfos offered to make him a capo if he went along with their plan to take the family back). If Dominic Grande took over Lancellotti's crew or was given a portion of it, it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that perhaps Joseph Grande was assigned to him. Both Grandes went to court together to see Piccolo get sentenced. We also know from the Persiano-Piccolo stuff that Grande's crew was active in South Jersey (and before that, Lancellotti and Anthony Nicodemo had the gambling operation in Atlantic City). Now geography isn't always a sure and steadfast method of establishing what crew someone reports to, but Joseph Grande also lives in South Jersey (Blackwood) according to the White Pages.

Lancelotti was at the meeting with Joe Grande and Scarfo Jr.? New info to me, great to know. Sounds like Grande was trying to keep the situation above board.

Yeah, it was in the Stefanelli transcripts when they were talking about the Scarfos trying to recruit Grande amd other Philly guys

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[B.]

Yeah, it was in the Stefanelli transcripts when they were talking about the Scarfos trying to recruit Grande amd other Philly guys

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You know, another thing there is where he says Scarfo Jr. wanted to make Grande a captain "not with the Lucchese" but with his father. It makes you wonder if Persiano and Piccolo were made not with the Luccheses and then transferred (which was implied in one account), but under the guise of the Scarfo-led "Philly" family. Would be interesting to know exactly how Persiano and Piccolo were brought into the Merlino/Ligambi fold.

[Fughedaboutit]

Wasn't Scarfo Jr. also trying to recruit Joey Chang? Or maybe I am getting him mixed up with Joe Grande. I always read he was partially paralyzed but never knew how bad or exactly what that meant.

[chin_gigante]

I agree it seems more likely that Grande was promised a captain position in a Philadelphia family under the Scarfos and I also think that Persiano and Piccolo were inducted as part of the Luchese-recognised, Scarfo-headed version of the Philadelphia family. (Probably being brought into the fold under Merlino when Scarfo and Pelullo were jailed 2011 or convicted later).

Discussing the ceremony in a 2019 Mob Talk (which is now no longer available to view on the YouTube channel for some reason), Dave Schratwieser noted that it took place about 10 years prior. Schratwieser fist claimed it was a Luchese ceremony but Anastasia corrected him that it wasn't necessarily the Lucheses. We know that Persiano, Piccolo, Salvatore Pelullo and another individual were made with Scarfo Sr's blessing. The inductions were a reward for their involvement in the FirstPlus scam and the ceremony was conducted by an "old timer".

This could also mean that Pelullo and the other unidentified inductee were taken in by Philadelphia like Persiano and Piccolo were or perhaps Pelullo's incarceration left him in a no-man's land or with the Lucheses.

In terms of the timeline:

- Scarfo Jr relocated to South Jersey in 2006/ 2007
- He was then demoted from capo to soldier in the Luchese family in August 2007 partially due to reports that he was positioning to take over Philadelphia
- However, an affidavit stated that the Scarfos had the backing of some of the New York families to take Philadelphia back (it did not say which families)
- Search warrants were issued May 2008 relating to the FirstPlus investigation
- Scarfo was indicted and released on bail May 2010 in a Luchese gambling case
- Indictments in the FirstPlus case hit Nov 2011, with Scarfo and Pelullo being denied bail
- The ceremony then had to take place probably around 2007 or 2008 (at the height of FirstPlus activity) or at the very latest by 2011

In terms of who the other inductee was I have a couple of thoughts here:

Daniel Daidone:
- Associated with Scarfo Jr between Feb 2007 and May 2008, which was the height of FirstPlus activity
- Talked with Scarfo Sr on the phone during this time
- Jailed for parole violation Sep 2008

John Parisi:
- Scarfo's cousin
- Involved with FirstPlus and indicted with Scarfo and Pelullo in 2011

I also thought about who the "old timer" was who conducted the ceremony. I've assumed this to mean a long-time Philly member and, while it's true that Scarfo Jr approached Joseph Ciancaglini Jr about getting back involved I don't think he'd be counted as an "old timer".

"Old timers" who were still alive around that time:

Guerino Marconi:
- Seems unlikely due to his having fallen out with Scarfo long before
- Died Feb 2009 and we don't have an exact date for the ceremony so he might not have even been alive still

Anthony Pungitore Sr:
- Also unlikely as the Pungitores were identified by Philly PD as being aligned with Merlino and Ligambi by the late-2000s

Mario Maggio:
- Seems less likely due to how little we heard about him from the 80s on in terms of involvement

Domenic Rugnetta:
- Same reason as Maggio

Francis Iannarella Sr:
- Seems unlikely, seeing how Iannarella Jr easily aligned himself with the family when he got off supervised release

Joseph Costello:
- Also unlikely as he died 2007 so there would be little overlap in terms of when the ceremony could take place

John Praino:
- Out of all the possibilities seems the most likely
- Still identified as active in the 2000s (viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4795)
- Had ties to the Scarfos through the North Jersey crew in the 1980s and 1990s

[B.]

Awesome info. Praino is a good candidate given he would have continued to rub shoulders with Scarfo Jr. around NYC/Newark. He was also inducted by Piccolo's uncle with Scarfo Sr.'s blessing. At least one of the guys made under Scarfo, like Joe Grande, maintained loyalty to the regime that made him.

Seems weird the pro-Scarfo faction would be just Nicky Jr. (Lucchese family), Joe Grande, and a few Scarfo Jr. associates making such a bold move against a family of killers. Crazier things have happened (i.e. Merlino inducting all of his friends and still being boss today), but you have to wonder if the Lucchese family recognizing Scarfo and them trying to re-take the family had more support than we know.

What's weird about that is the Lucchese family was upset at Scarfo Jr.'s actions and demoted him, so maybe there was a change in support within the Lucchese leadership or not all of them agreed with Amuso's support of the Scarfos. Back when the Perna indictment came down none of us thought there was any substance at all to the rumors about Scarfo Jr. trying to take over Philly but each bit of information has changed that.

I've said this before, but there was a random guy on the RealDeal who barely posted and around 2007/2008 he said "Sammy Piccolo" had become a made member in Philadelphia but didn't specify when. At that time nobody talked about Piccolo online and the only available info was from his drug case where Wayne Grande flipped on him. I noted it because at that time I was starting to dig into Piccolo family history and it was completely random. Nobody cared or discussed it.

He also mentioned a guy who ran in the same circles named "John" (I want to say the nickname "Fat John" or "Big John"; not Parisi) but nothing about him being a member. He said the guy's last name and the only Google result was some kind of minor non-OC crime and some fringe connection to the Lucchese family.

There was plenty of nonsense on the RD, though I remembered this when it came out that Piccolo was in fact a Philadelphia member and there were Lucchese ties. Who knows if it was guesswork but I guess it's like a broken clock and that sometimes the gossip is right, i.e. CosaNostraNews ID'ding Bellomo's street boss.

[queensnyer]

Both the sons of Ralph Scopo sr reached the rank of capo and continued to run the unions for the Colombos.

Ralph Scopo had an immense amount of power for a soldier, equal to or above that of most captains in that family or any family for that matter.

Which one was the one killed by Liberatore & John Pappa during the 3rd Colombo War?

Ralphs son Joey.

Do they have sons in the life that we know of? Or they all went legit.

there is a joe scopo who holds an organizer position with one of the concrete locals
im assuming a relative but not 100%

[B.]

Mario Maggio:
- Seems less likely due to how little we heard about him from the 80s on in terms of involvement

I'm not sure that Mario Maggio was ever even a made member. Despite conflicting sources, he was def not made as of late 1964. Peter Maggio was recorded meeting with two Gambino members from Baltimore and both Mario and Salvatore Maggio were forced to leave the room when mafia matters were discussed.



During the transcript of the recorded conversation, Peter Maggio explicitly tells the Gambino members that neither of his brothers are "amico nostra" and warns them to watch what they say when the brothers are in the room. What's interesting is the discussion between Peter Maggio and the Gambinos isn't about criminal activity, only the cheese and pizza business, but clearly protocol was important to him.

There is a source who said Peter Maggio was made in 1959 and that Mario was already made at that time, but this makes it clear this was not true. Harry Riccobene also told the FBI that Mario was not a member and that the father Michael Maggio was opposed to Mario gaining membership.

So unless Mario Maggio was inducted after 1964, he may have never been a made member. Did any later member sources ever say anything about him?

[chin_gigante]

I checked the 1995 NJSCI report based around information provided by Leonetti and that contained no mention of the Maggios. There's also no mention of the Maggios in Blood and Honour or Mafia Prince. I did find this from the 1990 Pennsylvania Crime Commission report that lists only Peter Maggio as a member:

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[Pogo The Clown]

Nove Toocco was a Soldier while his father Paul remained an Associate.


Pogo

[scott22]

I sense this will send Pogo and I off into our usual friendly banter....

From my research, Paul "Pops" Tocco was made, as were his sons Nove & Joey. Joey remains active. Paul died a few years ago. Nove left WITSEC after Jack Tocco died in '14 and moved back to Michigan. Paul Tocco married Joe Zerilli's daughter and Joe Z made him in the late 40s, early the '50s. Wasn't a person of much significance in the Family and wasn't very active in his latter years, although he is heard counseling Nove and Paulie Corrado about how to deal with Jackie Giacalone and Tony Giacalone in the GameTax tapes.

Another interesting younger brother-old brothers scenario in DET LCN, was when Jack Tocco/Billy Giacalone/Jackie Giacalone pulled "Fat Tony" Giacalone, Jr.'s stripes and put his younger brother "Joey Jack" in as capo of the Tony Giacalone crew. This led to major strife between the Giacalone bros and cousins. Jackie didnt attend Fat Tony's funeral in 14.

SMB

[Pogo The Clown]

Paul was indicted as an Associate in 1996. I have no idea if he was made after that.


Pogo

[scott22]

He for sure wasn't made after the '96 GameTax bust. Tony Z was his brother-in-law and told me his dad Joe made Paul Tocco. Nove told me this too. That being said, he was a nobody and only got his button because of who he married. Both his kids became much bigger players. His great grand kid Little Joey is about 44 and one of the biggest bookies on the eastside.

SMB

[NothingNew44]

Interesting stuff. I was under the impression Nove wasn’t made. I thought I read somewhere he didn’t identify himself made in his fbi debriefings.