The night ‘The Cigar’ was snuffed out

[Wiseguy]

And you guys are starting to bug me with this I'm obsessed with drugs. I'm obsessed with ORGANIZED CRIME!!

How can you possibly follow OC seriously and NOT keep up with drug trade?

I got burned twice this decade..... I didnt believe the Mexicans surpassed the Colombians, and I REALLY didnt buy ANY group surpassing LCN in ITALY, no less. So I
was slow to accept the Calabrians dominance. This dominance is due to nothing but cocaine. So now I pay attention to the cocaine....

It's actually very simple reasoning.... if Contruction racketeering or Agro- Racketeering or ANY white collar activity was generating the type of activity worldwide... I would be on here watching all the Concrete companies, talking about the Calabrians buying concrete companies all over the world. Or whatever it may be, garbage, gambling, whatever....

If the Calabrese, or Sinaloan gangsters were setting up
shop all over the world with a GAMBLING syndicate, I could understand the point better....

I've always said I'm into large operations, and the intrigues. I find the gas tax racket, garbage cartel, concrete club, Phone cramming, Garment Center racketeering, ( this is actually one thing that gives me pause when looking at the Naples clans..) Romano and his Stock Market stuff, all these things JUST as interesting, as they are large criminal operations, but these today are few and far in between.

We cant TODAY, speak of a Concrete or Garbage CARTEL, like it was in the 80s... but we can discover new things about contemporary Italian cartels.

Shit, we can discuss Victor Colleti and his Medicaid racketeering. I find that fascinating, as they dole out about a half trillion a year... I has to have a ton of growth potential.....


Maybe that Florida cream thing comes the closest to replicating that type of high level racketeering.

@Pogo

So you think the GQ article was off? That recently most of the big money cases Increasingly involve narcotics?

I think the point is, for you it all seems to begin and end with drug trafficking. It's like your default setting. That's the prism through which you see everything related to organized crime. As opposed to looking at drug trafficking as one aspect of organized crime. As I said before, it's the case of the tail wagging the dog.

And this especially the case when it comes to the Italian-American mob. While it has always been a big money maker, drugs aren't as central to the Americans as it has been to the Italian groups across the Atlantic. And that's still the case in general, notwithstanding recent trends.

[Slumpy]

And you guys are starting to bug me with this I'm obsessed with drugs. I'm obsessed with ORGANIZED CRIME!!

How can you possibly follow OC seriously and NOT keep up with drug trade?

Agreed 100%. Drugs have been a ubiquitous aspect of italian organized crime since the day prohibition ended and the primary area generating influence and wealth. People seem to forget that these organizations literally invented the modern international drug trade and they did it for a reason. If you're not looking at the bigger picture, if you're not looking at these international conspiracies, then you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

If someone is looking at a guy like Galante and not conceding that his murder plausibly, or even likely, was the result of some ongoing issue with respect to drugs, then I don't know what to tell 'em. There's no good reason to dismiss it as a possibility.

[Frank]

I think, like alot of hits, there usually is multiple reasons. Didn't Galante come out of prison disrespecting Gambino and others. Didn't he bomb Costello's grave. Didn't he have some Gambino members and associates killed. Also the fact that he was trying to take over as boss of the Bonannos. They might have got members and associates to turn on him, because of his greediness in the drug trade.

[Pogo The Clown]

Even at their peak drugs have have always been a small part of LCNs business. Especially on a national level. Only a tiny percentage of their membership have ever been involved in drug trafficking.


As for the Galante hit it was as simple as him being killed by Rastelli loyalists for taking the reigns of power without permission. No different then when the Persico loyalists tried to kill Vic Orena in 1991 for trying to usurp Persico as Boss. The only difference was that the Persico loyalists missed and a war erupted. All this talk of it being about international drug trafficking is just the usual hype and sensationalism.


Pogo

[maxiestern11]

It was not about drugs. You are obsessed with that. It was because Galante forced his way in as top guy in the family without permission. There were already plans to kill Galante years before it eventually happened.


Pogo

I agree with you Pogo.... it was about him being a ball buster and very domineering boss. Not the narcotics per se. Rastelli WAS supposed to be the boss and Galante bulled his way to the top!.... they just got rid of him

[maxiestern11]

Even at their peak drugs have have always been a small part of LCNs business. Especially on a national level. Only a tiny percentage of their membership have ever been involved in drug trafficking.


As for the Galante hit it was as simple as him being killed by Rastelli loyalists for taking the reigns of power without permission. No different then when the Persico loyalists tried to kill Vic Orena in 1991 for trying to usurp Persico as Boss. The only difference was that the Persico loyalists missed and a war erupted. All this talk of it being about international drug trafficking is just the usual hype and sensationalism.


Pogo

[Frank]

It was not about drugs. You are obsessed with that. It was because Galante forced his way in as top guy in the family without permission. There were already plans to kill Galante years before it eventually happened.


Pogo

Did it ever come out who was supposed to be in charge while Rastarelli was in prison. I assume it was Nicky Marangello. Or was Galante suppose to be acting boss.

[Confederate]

Even at their peak drugs have have always been a small part of LCNs business. Especially on a national level. Only a tiny percentage of their membership have ever been involved in drug trafficking.

Pogo

Even the big Pizza Connection Drug Business was almost entirely all about the Sicilians From Italy. They even had their own people on the receiving end in New York and other places. The vast majority (certainly not all) of the rank and file members of the New York 5 basically stayed out of the way of the Zips and tended to their usual business of Gambling, Loan Sharking, etc.

[Frank]

Even at their peak drugs have have always been a small part of LCNs business. Especially on a national level. Only a tiny percentage of their membership have ever been involved in drug trafficking.

Pogo

Even the big Pizza Connection Drug Business was almost entirely all about the Sicilians From Italy. They even had their own people on the receiving end in New York and other places. The vast majority (certainly not all) of the rank and file members of the New York 5 basically stayed out of the way of the Zips and tended to their usual business of Gambling, Loan Sharking, etc.

Yes I was going to say after prohibition wasn't the main things gambling, loansharking, extortion, union corruption. Also hidden ownership of casinos and the skims of casinos. And more .

[Wiseguy]

Even at their peak drugs have have always been a small part of LCNs business. Especially on a national level. Only a tiny percentage of their membership have ever been involved in drug trafficking.

Pogo

Even the big Pizza Connection Drug Business was almost entirely all about the Sicilians From Italy. They even had their own people on the receiving end in New York and other places. The vast majority (certainly not all) of the rank and file members of the New York 5 basically stayed out of the way of the Zips and tended to their usual business of Gambling, Loan Sharking, etc.

Yes I was going to say after prohibition wasn't the main things gambling, loansharking, extortion, union corruption. Also hidden ownership of casinos and the skims of casinos. And more .

After Prohibition gambling became the main money maker for the mob. But it had other core rackets, including those you listed above. Drugs was (and still is) a core racket for the New York families. However, where they once had a commanding position, they've been marginalized in the drug trade overall for years now. Its why I had to roll my eyes when some theorized Frank Cali was killed because of the 1.6 tons of cocaine seized at Port Newark a couple days before he was killed. If you're looking mainly at narcotics to understand the modern day American mob, you'll get a skewed picture of things.

By the way, in 1986 the the President's Commission on Organized Crime found that the Sicilians supplied the American LCN with heroin, and the LCN either distributed the drug themselves or sold it in large quantities to major distributors. So this idea that the American guys just sat around collecting territorial rent from their cousins across the pond doesn't tell the whole story.

[B.]

Galante had the support of many if not most of the family's captains and presided over some of the induction ceremonies (though they were only verbal), so his authority was recognized throughout the 1970s. Ruggiero described Galante maintaining contact with Sabella and presumably others when he returned to prison. If one report is true, Galante also attended some kind of Commission-type meeting to settle the Colombo family dispute in the later 1970s.

Dom Cicale claims he was told by a ranking Genovese member that Galante's murder was because Galante actually had too much support within the Bonanno family and posed a threat to the other families.

His situation is very close to Joe Magliocco in the early 1960s. Magliocco may have been killed, too, if he hadn't died of natural causes when he did.

This thread might be of interest:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3115
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3115&start=40

And this one is focused specifically on Galante's authority as boss:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2001

[CabriniGreen]

Even at their peak drugs have have always been a small part of LCNs business. Especially on a national level. Only a tiny percentage of their membership have ever been involved in drug trafficking.


As for the Galante hit it was as simple as him being killed by Rastelli loyalists for taking the reigns of power without permission. No different then when the Persico loyalists tried to kill Vic Orena in 1991 for trying to usurp Persico as Boss. The only difference was that the Persico loyalists missed and a war erupted. All this talk of it being about international drug trafficking is just the usual hype and sensationalism.


Pogo

Pogo

Indelicato, Dellacroce, these were Rastelli loyalist?

[CabriniGreen]

Even at their peak drugs have have always been a small part of LCNs business. Especially on a national level. Only a tiny percentage of their membership have ever been involved in drug trafficking.

Pogo

Even the big Pizza Connection Drug Business was almost entirely all about the Sicilians From Italy. They even had their own people on the receiving end in New York and other places. The vast majority (certainly not all) of the rank and file members of the New York 5 basically stayed out of the way of the Zips and tended to their usual business of Gambling, Loan Sharking, etc.

Yes I was going to say after prohibition wasn't the main things gambling, loansharking, extortion, union corruption. Also hidden ownership of casinos and the skims of casinos. And more .

After Prohibition gambling became the main money maker for the mob. But it had other core rackets, including those you listed above. Drugs was (and still is) a core racket for the New York families. However, where they once had a commanding position, they've been marginalized in the drug trade overall for years now. Its why I had to roll my eyes when some theorized Frank Cali was killed because of the 1.6 tons of cocaine seized at Port Newark a couple days before he was killed. If you're looking mainly at narcotics to understand the modern day American mob, you'll get a skewed picture of things.

By the way, in 1986 the the President's Commission on Organized Crime found that the Sicilians supplied the American LCN with heroin, and the LCN either distributed the drug themselves or sold it in large quantities to major distributors. So this idea that the American guys just sat around collecting territorial rent from their cousins across the pond doesn't tell the whole story.

You gotta stop doing this. You cant argue drugs are a core racket, then turnaround and say they have been marginalized, THEN turn right around and act like they were equal partners with the sicilians, it makes no sense.

It's like you dont even understand these SAME sicilians moving all the heroin, that the Americans were supposedly equal partners with, had access to and were moving MOUNTAINS of cocaine... so how were they marginalized?

And this was because of Certain mafiosi being connected in South America, basically the Gambinos, Caruanas- Cuntreras- Rizzuto, and sicilians like the Grecos, and Badalamenti.

The New Yorkers didnt have access to Turkish opium lords, or South American coke brokers, to my knowledge...

[CabriniGreen]

Galante had the support of many if not most of the family's captains and presided over some of the induction ceremonies (though they were only verbal), so his authority was recognized throughout the 1970s. Ruggiero described Galante maintaining contact with Sabella and presumably others when he returned to prison. If one report is true, Galante also attended some kind of Commission-type meeting to settle the Colombo family dispute in the later 1970s.

Dom Cicale claims he was told by a ranking Genovese member that Galante's murder was because Galante actually had too much support within the Bonanno family and posed a threat to the other families.

His situation is very close to Joe Magliocco in the early 1960s. Magliocco may have been killed, too, if he hadn't died of natural causes when he did.

This thread might be of interest:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3115
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3115&start=40

And this one is focused specifically on Galante's authority as boss:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2001

This here..... Good post here B.

Galante actually had a MAJORITY of support in the family, the Gambinos pushed for this murder, as well as the Sicilians.

The Genovese backed Sonny Red right?

[Wiseguy]

You gotta stop doing this. You cant argue drugs are a core racket, then turnaround and say they have been marginalized, THEN turn right around and act like they were equal partners with the sicilians, it makes no sense.

Drugs are a core racket for the NY families in the sense that they make significant regular income from it. Same for other core rackets like loansharking, extortion, labor racketeering and the biggest of all - gambling.

However, the LCN has been marginalized within the drug trade because they are no longer the main supply of drugs. Forget the few families left outside New York, they aren't even a blip on the radar. And even within the extended New York metropolitan area where the 5 families operate, it's the Colombians, Mexicans, Dominicans, etc who are the overwhelming source of the drug supply.

Again, that doesn't mean the NY families don't make millions from drugs. They do. But they're not moving even close to the weight these DTOs are. That's why drugs can be a core racket for them but they've still been marginalized in the overall drug trade.

Make sense?

As far as "equal partners," all I've said - and the government said the same thing - is that the Americans played a critical role in the trade too. Not only in terms of the territory but the actual selling of drugs as well. The Sicilians sold drugs to the Americans, who turned around and sold it to others.

It's like you dont even understand these SAME sicilians moving all the heroin, that the Americans were supposedly equal partners with, had access to and were moving MOUNTAINS of cocaine... so how were they marginalized?

When I say marginalized, I'm talking about the Mafia's market share of the American drug trade from the fall of the Pizza Connection up to the present day. So for about the past 35 years.

Before that, the Sicilian and American mobs had a controlling position in the American drug trade; at least the heroin trade. Obviously they were never in a position to be the main suppliers of cocaine or marijuana.