THE BLACK HAND FORUM

SolarSolano wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:13 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:45 am https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/10/29 ... rno-outfit

Now THAT is interesting. This guy is labelled a rat - but I'm of the belief he's with another Outfit crew. His brother Carmine was with Tony the Hatchet Chiaramonte's crew in the south suburbs. These Outfit crews are literally going to court against each other these days. Will be interesting to see what happens here.

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:08 pm

SolarSolano wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:37 pm I think Toots told both Handsome Mike and Frank Jr that they were able to testify - he was gobbling up anything Frank Sr. had at that point and Toots has Nick Ferriola in his pocket. Those in the know would say that is what happened and why Frankie comes back to Chicago frequently without problems and suddenly got some money in his pocket to start that gangster tour.

The court cases I referenced are the movie studios in Chicago - they are suing each other and each are backed by different Outfit crews. John Credidio is a real guy in Chicago who mixes business and vice on the regular - he has the backing of Cicero. The other guys are Rudy Fratto's Outfit - I'm not sure how this will play out without some murders - but maybe this is the new Outfit.

I think John Credidio died sometime in the last few years. Was he the guy that was close to Joe Ferriola? I just kinda find it hard to believe that these guys got the ok to testify.

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:52 pm I believe that Toots would allow Talarico to testify but not sure if he did the same for Frank, Jr. He probably didn't give a shit because it hurt Sr.'s chances of getting out and taking his rackets back but you would think it would piss off Marcello who was indirectly hurt by Jr's cooperation.

SolarSolano wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:37 pm I think Toots told both Handsome Mike and Frank Jr that they were able to testify - he was gobbling up anything Frank Sr. had at that point and Toots has Nick Ferriola in his pocket. Those in the know would say that is what happened and why Frankie comes back to Chicago frequently without problems and suddenly got some money in his pocket to start that gangster tour.

The court cases I referenced are the movie studios in Chicago - they are suing each other and each are backed by different Outfit crews. John Credidio is a real guy in Chicago who mixes business and vice on the regular - he has the backing of Cicero. The other guys are Rudy Fratto's Outfit - I'm not sure how this will play out without some murders - but maybe this is the new Outfit.

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:43 pm

Dwalin2014 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:47 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:58 pm This is also the same organization that "allowed" (in quotes because he was the boss) Paul Ricca testify in the Jack Cerone gambling case in the 1960s to avoid perjury. Different situations, but still.

Speaking of this, in your opinion why did the feds accept this agreement (Ricca testifies and goes free, and Cerone goes to jail partly thanks to his testimony)? I mean, Ricca was afraid he would die in jail if convicted for perjury at his age, wouldn't that be a bigger result? Imo it would have been more logical NOT to make that deal with Ricca, even if (and ESPECIALLY if) the feds were looking for headlines, career etc. After all, that would be The Boss himself dying in jail rather than just an underling of his (Cerone) serving some prison time.

Ricca was just called as a witness, he wasn't under indictment. So he was either gonna testify or do time for contempt. He was lucky he wasn't cited for contempt as it was considering how vague and evasive some of his answers were. Cerone and company were probably going to go down regardless because of Bombacino. My guess is that the feds figured Ricca would pull a Giancana and refuse to testify and end up doing time.

Dwalin2014 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:47 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:58 pm This is also the same organization that "allowed" (in quotes because he was the boss) Paul Ricca testify in the Jack Cerone gambling case in the 1960s to avoid perjury. Different situations, but still.

Speaking of this, in your opinion why did the feds accept this agreement (Ricca testifies and goes free, and Cerone goes to jail partly thanks to his testimony)? I mean, Ricca was afraid he would die in jail if convicted for perjury at his age, wouldn't that be a bigger result? Imo it would have been more logical NOT to make that deal with Ricca, even if (and ESPECIALLY if) the feds were looking for headlines, career etc. After all, that would be The Boss himself dying in jail rather than just an underling of his (Cerone) serving some prison time.

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:58 pm This is also the same organization that "allowed" (in quotes because he was the boss) Paul Ricca testify in the Jack Cerone gambling case in the 1960s to avoid perjury. Different situations, but still.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:57 pm

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:35 am Sorry, I edited this post after I found a source I was looking for. I had thought it was the CCC that I had seen identify Talarico but it was the FBI (see below).

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:53 am

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:48 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:53 am Speaking of Chinatown, anyone recognize the guy in the video?:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/A ... 34461.html

So this guy is made and also testified against Frank Calabrese?

Which begs the question - assuming its the same guy - why we still have him on the Outfit member list?

It is definitely the same guy.

From a Sun-Times article by Steve Warmbir:

Caruso, a nephew of the late Ald. Fred B. Roti, was identified in a 1999 FBI report as a "made" member of the mob. He is also a member of the Old Neighborhood Italian-American Club.

The group's "purpose . . . was to keep the neighborhood very active with children," Caruso said in a deposition six years ago.

Other current or recent members [of the Old Neighborhood Italian-American Club] include two other men the FBI identified as "made'' mob members: Caruso's brother Frank "Toots'' Caruso and Michael Talarico, a restaurant owner who married into the extended Roti family.

All of that out of the way, Talarico (irregardless of his membership) may have been "allowed" to testify without pleading the fifth and being hit with a perjury charge. Calabrese had fallen out of favor by that point so Toots may have simply told Talarico to go for it. This was similar to the situation with Mickey Marcello testifying at John Ambrose's trial. The Outfit presumably had no more use for Ambrose so they allowed Mickey to testify. Neither one really gave up any incriminating information on active Outfit members in good standing. I'm not really sure you could qualify Talarico as a "rat;" he is not a cooperator or an informant, at least to the extent of my knowledge.

I don't know, that's playing pretty fast and loose with the rules; even by today's standards.

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:35 am Sorry, I edited this post after I found a source I was looking for. I had thought it was the CCC that I had seen identify Talarico but it was the FBI (see below).

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:53 am

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:48 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:53 am Speaking of Chinatown, anyone recognize the guy in the video?:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/A ... 34461.html

So this guy is made and also testified against Frank Calabrese?

Which begs the question - assuming its the same guy - why we still have him on the Outfit member list?

It is definitely the same guy.

From a Sun-Times article by Steve Warmbir:

Caruso, a nephew of the late Ald. Fred B. Roti, was identified in a 1999 FBI report as a "made" member of the mob. He is also a member of the Old Neighborhood Italian-American Club.

The group's "purpose . . . was to keep the neighborhood very active with children," Caruso said in a deposition six years ago.

Other current or recent members [of the Old Neighborhood Italian-American Club] include two other men the FBI identified as "made'' mob members: Caruso's brother Frank "Toots'' Caruso and Michael Talarico, a restaurant owner who married into the extended Roti family.

All of that out of the way, Talarico (irregardless of his membership) may have been "allowed" to testify without pleading the fifth and being hit with a perjury charge. Calabrese had fallen out of favor by that point so Toots may have simply told Talarico to go for it. This was similar to the situation with Mickey Marcello testifying at John Ambrose's trial. The Outfit presumably had no more use for Ambrose so they allowed Mickey to testify. Neither one really gave up any incriminating information on active Outfit members in good standing. I'm not really sure you could qualify Talarico as a "rat;" he is not a cooperator or an informant, at least to the extent of my knowledge.

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:35 am As an example, a guy like Jimmy Inendino is almost undoubtedly made but I don't have any FBI source material describing him as such.

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:53 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:35 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:53 am

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:48 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:53 am Speaking of Chinatown, anyone recognize the guy in the video?:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/A ... 34461.html

So this guy is made and also testified against Frank Calabrese?

Which begs the question - assuming its the same guy - why we still have him on the Outfit member list?

It is definitely the same guy. The CCC identified him as made. Sometimes they work in conjunction with the FBI and local police so it is difficult to tell where they got the information. With that said, I don't place their information as high as the FBI's.

Also, I don't have a separate list for confirmed members because there aren't very many contemporary federal documents proclaiming individual Outfit members as made. As an example, a guy like Jimmy Inendino is almost undoubtedly made but I don't have any FBI source material describing him as such. There just isn't as much as the east coast families, although I am currently working hard to get such material. I recently inserted a disclaimer into the membership list, although I have always tried to have "suspected" or "estimated" somewhere in the chart. At the very least, guys on the list were identified as "made" somewhere.

All of that out of the way, Talarico (irregardless of his membership) may have been "allowed" to testify without pleading the fifth and being hit with a perjury charge. Calabrese had fallen out of favor by that point so Toots may have simply told Talarico to go for it. This was similar to the situation with Mickey Marcello testifying at John Ambrose's trial. The Outfit presumably had no more use for Ambrose so they allowed Mickey to testify. I'm not really sure you could qualify Talarico as a "rat;" he is not a cooperator or an informant, at least to the extent of my knowledge.

Do we know why Frank fell out of favor, was it simply because of his son and brother becoming rats? The first I heard of Talarico was when LE or the press had him as successor to the LaPietras as Capo of Chinatown. That turned out to be false. I had forgotten that he had testified at the Family Secrets Trial.

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:35 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:53 am

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:48 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:53 am Speaking of Chinatown, anyone recognize the guy in the video?:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/A ... 34461.html

So this guy is made and also testified against Frank Calabrese?

Which begs the question - assuming its the same guy - why we still have him on the Outfit member list?

It is definitely the same guy. The CCC identified him as made. Sometimes they work in conjunction with the FBI and local police so it is difficult to tell where they got the information. With that said, I don't place their information as high as the FBI's.

Also, I don't have a separate list for confirmed members because there aren't very many contemporary federal documents proclaiming individual Outfit members as made. As an example, a guy like Jimmy Inendino is almost undoubtedly made but I don't have any FBI source material describing him as such. There just isn't as much as the east coast families, although I am currently working hard to get such material. I recently inserted a disclaimer into the membership list, although I have always tried to have "suspected" or "estimated" somewhere in the chart. At the very least, guys on the list were identified as "made" somewhere.

All of that out of the way, Talarico (irregardless of his membership) may have been "allowed" to testify without pleading the fifth and being hit with a perjury charge. Calabrese had fallen out of favor by that point so Toots may have simply told Talarico to go for it. This was similar to the situation with Mickey Marcello testifying at John Ambrose's trial. The Outfit presumably had no more use for Ambrose so they allowed Mickey to testify. I'm not really sure you could qualify Talarico as a "rat;" he is not a cooperator or an informant, at least to the extent of my knowledge.