THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Pmac2 wrote:
> The guy chris londonio was supposedly a tough guy with hands and weapons.
> And the guy maffucci should have known spinelli was wearing a wire when
> he's saying things like I hope Matty goes down for the meldish murder. Red
> flags lol
+1 no street guy would or should ever say something like that. Keep my enemies free so they can be dealt with accordingly.

Thank you for posting the transcripts. You the man. Madonna had 100 soldiers he could have gave that 100k loan out to and he picked meldish. I guess he knew him for 50yrs or so. Cost both of them there life's. Dumb and those others shooters to. Crea Sr got railroaded. He will be the reason a smart guy in the life is hesitant to take a administration position. But it seems like the smart guys are ok with being a capo and having there guys around not playing politics with 100+guys and going to jail for something they did

[quote=JohnnyS post_id=274708 time=1708439593 user_id=5544]
Discussing the Meldish hit and who gave the order.

JM: I mean shit, let me ask you a serious question and I’m gonna tell you a serious thing. There’s no way in the world that you shouldn’t be straightened out.
CW-1: I know. I know.
JM: They straightened out this fucken Chris, this fucken half a junkie.
CW-1: I heard he was a -– the guy, Carmine chased him. He was -– Carmine -–
JM: (TS) I know he did. I -– that’s the guy who chased him, Carmine?
CW-1: Yes.
JM: Okay. I didn’t -– now I know who he is. He chased him around the street, right?
CW-1: I -– I -– something happened.
JM: Yeah, he was gonna give him a beating in the middle of the street. I know the whole story. He ran from him.
CW-1: Yeah, he told me that -– about the guy in the house pulling up his pants -–
JM: Right.
CW-1: Wife, the pills, the this, the -– I can tell you one thing, Carmine even said that kid’s gonna go bad. Whoever gave that kid the order, if Stevie’s son gave that kid the order, he’s going bad on him.
JM: I don’t know whether Stevie’s son gave the -- the -– I –
CW-1: That’s a little gossip too.
JM: I know who gave the order. I know who did though. Do you know who Car–- uh, uh, uh, um, uh -- what do you call this -– who Chris is? He’s supposedly Joe DiNapoli’s nephew.
CW-1: Joe DiNapoli gave the order?
JM: I don’t know but it’s -– it’s his nephew.
CW-1: Yeah, but why would it come from him if he’s around Stevie, if Stevie -– Stevie’s the skipper?
JM: Well, maybe he wasn’t made –- made then?
CW-1: Oh.
JM: Maybe he wasn’t straightened out yet.
CW-1: So, in other words, he did -– he didn’t go with Stevie til after he was straightened out?
JM: Right.
CW-1: Yeah, but I thought -–
JM: As soon as you get straightened out you go, go in this group.
CW-1: I understand but wasn’t he close to Matty too?
JM: Matty was away with uh, with him.
CW-1: I understand. So why wouldn’t Matty himself give the kid the order?
JM: Maybe the both of them did.
CW-1: Matty and Joe DiNapoli together?
JM: Maybe. You know how it goes.
CW-1: I can tell you one thing, he –- I mean, I –- if he’s his -– is that his nephew?
JM: I think it is.
CW-1: You think it is? You don’t know for sure? You’re smiling like -– I mean, is he his nephew or not? Alright, who gives a fuck. I mean like I don’t care. I’m only saying – alright.
JM: (IA)
CW-1: I can tell you. In a way I want to see them go down. I hate Matty. I hate him.
JM: Just Matty.
CW-1: For, for -- just Matty. I -– them other guys, I don’t know. Like –-
JM: And you wanna know something?
CW-1: I don’t know them. (TS) I have no animosity to anybody.
JM: (TS) (UI) It doesn’t - let me finish. Let me finish. If Matty was a smart guy, he would’ve put you with Steve –-
CW-1: (TS) Absolutely, right next to him.
JM: He would -– no, he would’ve put you close to Joe DiNapoli and Stevie cause you’re -– you’re a -- a prime candidate to be friends with them.
CW-1: Right, they – that’s -– that’s their -– they’re my -– in other words, they’re more my speed.
JM: Exactly. You hear what you said to Joe? If you need me for something like this, this is why I know.
CW-1: Yes.
JM: Okay. If I need you, I know, if I need something like that, I know who I’m gonna call.
CW-1: Right.
JM: You. You follow me?
CW-1: Yes.
JM: That’s it, period. The end. And they would’ve felt the same way as I -– as Joe did, or you told Joe and the way I feel, okay? So that –- that answers all your questions. That’s why I know Matty held you down.
CW-1: Yeah.
JM: And there’s only one reason why he held you down is because of Brian. You’ll never see Brian around again.
CW-1: No.
JM: That’s the only reason I’m really expressing the way I feel.
CW-1: (TS) I -– I -– I know that. I know I won’t. I –- I know.
JM: That’s the only reason I’m expressing the way I feel.
CW-1: I know. I know. But I –- I want -– I want Matty to go down for that, for Meldish.
JM: But –-
CW-1: I want -– because you know what? He’s a scumbag and he deserves it. And you know what?
JM: He’s a coward.
CW-1: He is a coward.
JM: That’s what I’m saying. I mean, I could never say that to anybody but you.
CW-1: Right. First of all, the -- the way they did that whole thing was a coward move.
JM: Well I agree.
CW-1: If you have a beef with a guy I -– you -– you’re the boss, okay. Put one of your main -– he should’ve got a guy who was straightened out already -–
JM: Exactly.
CW-1: -- and made him kill him.
JM: Exactly right. Exactly right.
CW-1: But the reason why he got a guy who wasn’t straightened out, because Meldish was Irish not Italian so -–
JM: Michael was half Polish and half Italian.
CW-1: (TS) Well, what I’m saying is he could have got a guy who wasn’t straightened out because he wasn’t Italian.
JM: Oh yeah.
CW-1: He wasn’t a made member. So that’s why -–
JM: But -– but in essence, Michael Meldish was the closest thing to being a wise guy as any.
[/quote]

Continued on.

CW-1: (TS) I -– I -– I totally agree with you.
JM: He and his brother did more work than any -– 20 guys.
CW-1: (TS) Oh, oh, I –- I totally agree with you. But that’s why -- why make a kid like Chris do it, an inexperienced guy?
JM: Ccuse they knew that Chris kid could get close to him without too much -– Michael had no fear of Chris whatsoever.
CW-1: Right. In other words, they knew Chris could get close to him without Meldish putting the flag up.
JM: Right. Michael had a gun in his pocket. Michael Meldish told Matty Madonna to meet him right here.
CW-1: Right here?
JM: Right here. Right in this seat, any time, any pla -- any time at at any hour of the day.
CW-1: What I’m asking you is before he – before that happened, how –- when did -– how long before that did that argument occur?
JM: Oh, about six months.
CW-1: Oh, well
JM: (IA)
CW-1: I –- oh, I thought it was weeks.
JM: No, no. It was six months.
CW-1: So Matty played it smart.
JM: Michael was a -– was a – Michael wa-- you know, he -–
CW-1: But he did fall asleep, Jim. He’s dead. He fell asleep.
JM: He fell asleep on Chris.
CW-1: Yeah.
JM: If that’s who in fact killed him but.
CW-1: Oh, yeah. Like you said, he wasn’t letting anybody near him and he had no fear of the kid so.
JM: He knew the kid too. This was the only time this kid pulled a trigger, I can guarantee it. Unless he was killing mosquitos or rats or -– or mice in his apartment, he wouldn’t shoot.
CW-1: Did he pull the trigger or Caldwell pull the trigger?
JM: I don’t know. That I don’t.
CW-1: Right, you know what I mean?
JM: I can’t even guess.
CW-1: It -– it was probably him because –- I don’t know but he was close to the other guy too. The other guy was living with him, wasn’t he?
JM: Yeah.
CW-1: So.
JM: I was -– I would think it was more Chris than Caldwell.
CW-1: Why?
JM: I don’t know. I just think it was.
CW-1: I probably agree with ya. Why would you be meeting that guy, you know what I mean, there?
JM: Yeah.
CW-1: Why -- why meet him there? That guy didn’t even have a car, right?
JM: See, what people don’t know is Michael Meldish in that neighborhood was seeing a shylock. Nobody knows this story but me.
CW-1: Uh-huh. (UI)
JM: There was a Shylock that lived in the building on the left-hand side and Michael would go and see this guy once a week, they had some business together. Okay? Small. So Michael took a paycheck, two hundred, a hun-fifty, but they hadn’t, you know, at that time -–
CW-1: The guy was giving it to Michael?
JM: Yeah.
CW-1: Why?
JM: Because Michael would make sure that the guy got paid every week.
CW-1: Oh, they guy had a couple customers and he use to look out.
JM: So that’s where that –- that place was, it was in a real secluded, dark area.
CW-1: Oh, that’s why he was there.
JM: That’s why he was there.
CW-1: But where’d Chris live?
JM: Chris lives in the Bronx.
CW-1: Oh, so -– okay.
JM: But he was always on -– he was always up by there.
CW-1: So, in other words, he made a convenience for him too. To meet him. That other guy lives in Manhattan. That guy lived with Mike? Didn’t he live with Mike?
JM: That’s why I would bet dollars to donuts -–
CW-1: (TS) That’s what I’m saying. Didn’t that guy live in Mike’s apartment?
JM: He did. Uh, he wasn’t uh, ba- back then but he did, he did.
CW-1: Right. And so in other words, why would you meet him there? So that’s why I said it’s gotta be Chris.
JM: Well, Mike, Michael, always use to go to the Bronx (UI) anyway.
CW-1: Oh, did he?
JM: You know, old habits die hard.
CW-1: Right.
JM: You know, he knew everybody in country club, this place, that place--
CW-1: Right.
JM: --you know what I mean?

[quote=JohnnyS post_id=274764 time=1708514722 user_id=5544]
[quote=Cheech post_id=274747 time=1708475946 user_id=71]
Who is the Carmine they refer too?
[/quote]

Bonanno associate Carmine Garcia.
[/quote]

good stuff, thanks!

[quote=JohnnyS post_id=274764 time=1708514722 user_id=5544]
[quote=Cheech post_id=274747 time=1708475946 user_id=71]
Who is the Carmine they refer too?
[/quote]

Bonanno associate Carmine Garcia.
[/quote]

Thanks Johnny

[quote=Cheech post_id=274747 time=1708475946 user_id=71]
Who is the Carmine they refer too?
[/quote]

Bonanno associate Carmine Garcia.

The guy chris londonio was supposedly a tough guy with hands and weapons. And the guy maffucci should have known spinelli was wearing a wire when he's saying things like I hope Matty goes down for the meldish murder. Red flags lol

[quote=Southshore88 post_id=274759 time=1708484719 user_id=6206]
[quote=Cheech post_id=274747 time=1708475946 user_id=71]
Who is the Carmine they refer too?
[/quote]

Not sure but my guess would be Avellino who would’ve been a captain at that point.
[/quote]

Carmine Avellino would have been 70 years old in 2014. Seems a little old to be chasing a guy like Londonio around in the street attempting to give him a beating but I guess anything is possible.

A lot of Carmines out there and they didn’t explicitly say this Carmine was a Lucchese did they?

[quote=Cheech post_id=274747 time=1708475946 user_id=71]
Who is the Carmine they refer too?
[/quote]

Not sure but my guess would be Avellino who would’ve been a captain at that point.

Who is the Carmine they refer too?

Reading over the governments appeal papers, it’s pretty amazing, pre and during earlier part of the trial, the Judge wasn’t going to allow the prosecutors to elicit from the jailhouse informant Evangelista the Londonio statements about Crea Sr and Crea Jr involvement in the murder. If that didn’t come in, I wonder if Crea Sr beats case.

Evangelista testified that Londonio told him the following: 1) that Meldish was killed because “he disrespected the boss and it couldn’t be fixed”, 2) that he had his friend Terry as “the shooter”, 3) and complained about Crea Sr and Crea Jr getting bail because “these pricks had more to do with it than me”, and “Stevie gave the order.” Doesn’t seem Evangelista recorded these.

The judge changed her opinion and allowed them in when the government said they were corroborated by Spinelli testimony and Spinelli recording of Joe Datello on August 18, 2014, where Datello talked about getting shaken down by Crea Sr over debts, and said “this guy just clipped a guy because of $100,000,” and another recording where Datello said “they clipped Meldish” because he was a “loose cannon” and refused to pay Madonna, with the “they” referring to Madonna and Crea Sr.

The govt claims if this wasn’t properly admitted it was “harmless error,” which for Crea Sr seems a stretch being not a whole lot of evidence linking him to the murder.

The fbi expert testified he was unaware of any situation where any sanctioned murder did not involve the administration, particularly the underboss. Made me try to think of examples where underboss did not seem to be involved.

[quote=Cheech post_id=274711 time=1708441565 user_id=71]
[quote=moneyman post_id=274707 time=1708437955 user_id=165]
[quote=JohnnyS post_id=274672 time=1708340090 user_id=5544]
I've been too busy recently so still going through these transcripts and putting them together to post. There's a conversation coming up where Maffucci says he thinks Joe DiNapoli was involved in the Meldish hit. He says Londonio is DiNapoli's nephew and that Londonio wasn't in Crea jr's crew before he was straightened out. Londonio was put with that crew after he was made and before that he was just around Madonna and DiNapoli.
[/quote]

I vaguely remember Londonio having a negative opinion of Crea JR in one of the previous transcripts that was made public - I think it was at a meeting at a diner with Salvatore Larca. Didn't help that Crea JR was probably giving off the perception of having the royal treatment with his father knocking him down to help shield him.
[/quote]

Larca Jr called Crea Jr a peacock motherfucker.
[/quote]

I'm going to start using this lol

[quote=aray22 post_id=274710 time=1708440346 user_id=7334]
[quote=moneyman post_id=274707 time=1708437955 user_id=165]
[quote=JohnnyS post_id=274672 time=1708340090 user_id=5544]
I've been too busy recently so still going through these transcripts and putting them together to post. There's a conversation coming up where Maffucci says he thinks Joe DiNapoli was involved in the Meldish hit. He says Londonio is DiNapoli's nephew and that Londonio wasn't in Crea jr's crew before he was straightened out. Londonio was put with that crew after he was made and before that he was just around Madonna and DiNapoli.
[/quote]

I vaguely remember Londonio having a negative opinion of Crea JR in one of the previous transcripts that was made public - I think it was at a meeting at a diner with Salvatore Larca. Didn't help that Crea JR was probably giving off the perception of having the royal treatment with his father knocking him down to help shield him.
[/quote]

Do you have those transcripts?
[/quote]

It's in the motion that's attached to this thread

https://theblackhand.club/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4220

But I misremembered, it was Larca who voiced his disapproval for Crea JR - doesn't appear Londonio was at that meeting.

[quote=Snakes post_id=274709 time=1708440271 user_id=66]
Funny how they shit on Londonio and say he will go bad but Spinelli ends up ratting while Londonio is doing life and keeping his mouth shut.
[/quote]

Exactly! Do you think Londonio got railroaded w/ his sentence? He got life at what, only 50 years old?

[quote=moneyman post_id=274707 time=1708437955 user_id=165]
[quote=JohnnyS post_id=274672 time=1708340090 user_id=5544]
I've been too busy recently so still going through these transcripts and putting them together to post. There's a conversation coming up where Maffucci says he thinks Joe DiNapoli was involved in the Meldish hit. He says Londonio is DiNapoli's nephew and that Londonio wasn't in Crea jr's crew before he was straightened out. Londonio was put with that crew after he was made and before that he was just around Madonna and DiNapoli.
[/quote]

I vaguely remember Londonio having a negative opinion of Crea JR in one of the previous transcripts that was made public - I think it was at a meeting at a diner with Salvatore Larca. Didn't help that Crea JR was probably giving off the perception of having the royal treatment with his father knocking him down to help shield him.
[/quote]

Larca Jr called Crea Jr a peacock motherfucker.